Dear PETA: You ' re in a hole. You might want to stop digging.

"PETA responded about their position on guide dogs over on the LA Times blog," Gina told me yesterday. "Can you do a follow-up to your post about that?"



Something I hadn't felt since the last time my dentist looked in my mouth and said, "Huh, that's odd," went over me, but I ignored it. "Sure," I told her.



Today she emailed me a reminder note, and I thought to myself, now, why did I forget to do that?



And then I realized that every time I delve into the PETA hive-mind, I feel like I've been slimed. But like the most fearless of war correspondents (and no, I do not mean Joe the Not-Plumber), I'll do anything, go anywhere, to bring you the facts -- and also, the opinions.



Let's begin with the facts. From PETA's Daphna Nachminovitch, when asked about guide and other kinds of assistance dogs:

There will never be a perfect world, but in the world we’re in now, we support some working dog situations and decry others.  Hearing dog programs that pull dogs from animal shelters and ensure that they are in safe and loving homes have our stamp of approval; they live with the family for their entire life, they learn interesting things, enjoy life, and love helping.  On the other hand, we oppose most seeing-eye-dog programs because the dogs are bred as if there are no equally intelligent dogs literally dying for homes in shelters, they are kept in harnesses almost 24/7, people are prohibited from petting or playing with them and they cannot romp and run and interact with other dogs; and their lives are repeatedly disrupted (they are trained for months in one home and bond, then sent to a second, and after years of bonding with the person they have "served," they are whisked away again because they are old and no longer "useful"). We have a member who is blind who actually moved states to avoid "returning" her beloved dog. We feel that the human community should do more to support blind people, and give dogs a break.  A deaf person can see if a dog has a medical issue such as blood in her urine, a blind person living alone cannot, and so on.

As so often happens when I try to make sense of the spokesblather that emerges from PETA's hive, I got a headache when I read this. First I wanted to make a pretty little chart like the one in my high school debating class where we learned all the categories of logical fallacy and bad debate technique, then draw a big circle around the one called the "straw man argument."



That's the one where you don't have an effective counter to what your opponent said, so you make up a completely different argument, attribute it to her, and then rebut it.



PETA is against the use of guide dogs -- which they incorrectly call "seeing-eye dogs" -- not only because, amazingly like Joseph McCarthy, they know of some instances where the dogs have been mistreated, but because all guide dogs are denied fun, bonding, a good home, care, fun, relaxation, and time off, all the time.



I know guide dogs and their partners, and I know people who train them. There is nothing, absolutely nothing at all, about the training of guide dogs that requires they live their lives without playing, exercise, bonding, love, care, and fun, nor do most humans who have these dogs treat them that way. Even if some do, it's neither necessary nor desired, and no one who raises, trains, or works with guide dogs is advocating it.



But who can blame PETA for preferring to rebut an argument no one is making or attack a position no one is advocating instead of taking on the powerful bond between a disabled human and his assistance dog? Straw men fall down so much more easily.



Then there's the "fact" that blind people apparently are incapable of caring for their dogs, but deaf people can because they can see. I'll make sure to tell all the blind people I know that PETA thinks they're too stupid to take their dogs to the vet when they have to pee more frequently than normal because they can't see the blood in their urine -- that trust me, is invisible even to pet owners with the best eyes, and appears, if at all, long after frequent urination, thirst, restlessness, and incontinence will have indicated to any owner with or without functioning eyeballs that something's wrong with the dog.



I'll also tell all the vets I know that their patients who work as guide dogs are being neglected and deprived of proper care, because they seem to have a completely different impression based on that notoriously unreliable thing known as reality.



Then there's the brilliant suggestion that guide dogs be recruited from the ranks of shelter dogs, ignoring the fact that the washout rate for non-purpose-bred guide dogs is much higher than those bred to do this work, which is not the case for some other forms of assistance, including the signal work done by hearing dogs.



This isn't rocket science and it's not a mystery, either -- to anyone except PETA, who are either being disingenuous in the extreme or, you know... wrong.



Of course, PETA is just doing this out of compassion for all the dogs dying in shelters who don't have homes, which brings us to the stunningly, ummm... I'm searching for a word here... let me think... DECEPTIVE claim that PETA doesn't want to take away our dogs. In fact, Nachminovitch insists, they think we should have more dogs -- as long as there are dogs in shelters who need homes, that is. And we get the dog there.



But this is a different kind of straw man she's built. This is the one where we accurately point to what PETA is saying -- "We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals' best interests if the institution of 'pet keeping'—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as "pets"—never existed. " -- and then they defend themselves against an accusation we didn't make -- that PETA wants to come to your house and take away your dog.



It's the idea of dogs PETA is against. It's the future of dogs they're against. It's the reality of dogs, as dogs and not little human beings on four legs, they're against. That's why they form opinions of working dogs without even knowing what working dogs do, it's why they want to kill all pit bulls, even puppies, and it's why they think "a breeder is a breeder is a breeder."



To quote the Terrierman from his comment over on the LA Times blog:

As Rachel Maddow says, "Use the Google" before you write. And stop listening -- and publicizing PeTA lies.

Or to put it another way:



Why is anyone still listening to PETA?

Comments

[Gina Spadafori]

If we just keep asking the question, maybe the people who LOVE animals, and who don't agree with PETA's stated agenda of severing our relationship with animals, including pets, will STOP SENDING THEM MONEY. And then, PETA can resume their rightful role of offering a point of view in the marketplace of ideas, for people to evaluate honestly in its merits or lack thereof.



As for Daphna ... I can't figure out if she skews more loon or liar, or is the perfect combination of both. Every statement she makes on behalf of her employer is usually in direct contradiction with what PETA's founder says, or with policies and goals stated on their own damn Web site.



Why is anyone still listening to PETA?

[straybaby]

I'm on the fence with loon vs liar. Kinda like if they think we will really buy into these lies, they must be a loon? Or they're just lyin' loonies, the best of both worlds!



PeTA needs to get a life . . .

[EmilyS]

Could this possibly be PETA's "lie too far"?

We can only hope...

[Selma]

Daphna has struck me as the classic sociopath for quite awhile. She can lie with a perfectly straight face and appears to have no conscience.



Obviously, as usual, the people exterminating thousands of animals have never had any contact at all with a guide dog (they used to be seeing eye dogs way back when Ingrid was a kid).



The dogs, once retired, are usually kept as pets even after a new dog arrives. The dogs get walked all day, get to hang with their owners, go anywhere, get good care and plenty of 'down time'. Maybe Daphna's friend wasn't looking after her dog properly, who knows? Oh, and I love the assumption that blind people don't have any friends, especially ones who can see. Not too much of a put-down.



Since shelter dogs start life somewhere, stay at the shelter often for quite awhile, then switch homes, is it not 'cruel' to subject them to that? Shouldn't they all be killed? Oh, wait...



I guess the Peta bunnies are also unaware of the fact that many of the dogs don't pass the finals and end up going to pet homes. I know someone who fosters pups before training and it's a tough job, too, trust me.



Peta - People Who Don't Know Jack About Animals. (I guess that would be PWDKJAA)

[george]

If anyone is interested here is a video on factory farming: http://meat.org

[Christopher]

Dear PeTA, you're a--holes, you might want to stop existing.

[Laurel]

Oh, Heaven forfend these poor dogs not suffer the indignity of having strangers "petting or playing with them" while they're on the clock. That takes "humaniac" to a new level.



You don't just walk up and pat a police horse or a guide dog. They love their work and they don't appreciate distractions. Sometimes I wonder if spokespeople for PETA have ever interacted with domestic animals.

[slt]

'...they are whisked away again because they are old and no longer “useful”'



I could say the same about you PETA.

[Jason Merrihew]

I will forever associate PETA with straw man.

[Gina Spadafori]

If anyone is interested here is a video on factory farming: http://meat.org



Comment by george — January 13, 2009 @ 11:55 pm



Thanks, George, but we don't need PETA Web site to fight factory farming. I haven't bought any meat that wasn't humanely and sustainably raised and slaughtered for years. I was on the endorsement page for Prop. 2, the Humane Farming Initiative here in California. I worked for its passage, too.



I believe in my heart and support with my wallet operations like Polyface Farms, where farmers show respect, compassion and kindness for their animals and practice good stewardship of their land.



I am not a vegan, and my dogs and cats are carnivores. And I can see that PETA's goals of driving to extinction of all domestic animals is all part of a neat little package. No food animals, however well treated. And with no meat, no pets.



In other words, thank you for another PETA strawman. By showing cruelty that no compassionate person would agree with, you are taking PETA's position that the choice is factory farming or no food animals.



And that is another PETA lie.



Cheers from my backyard chickens by the way, happy, well-fed, free-roaming and exploited for their delicious eggs daily.



Why is anyone still listening to PETA?

[Miriam]

THANK you. As a guide dog handler, I'm relieved to see a competent, thoroughly accurate eye-roll in the direction of PETA's views on this blog. Wonderful job.

[2CatMom]

Totally OT - I think I'm going through "Gratuitous Chicken Blogging" Withdrawal Syndrome".



Gina: Any chance of some new pictures of your clucker cuties?

[Gina Spadafori]

Just so happens I took a whole new lot this weekend!



And, get this ... I'm going to put in a chickencam this spring!!!!

[Cindy and her bullies]

But But CHRISTIE!!!



PETA just wants to kill the Pit Bulls (even dogs who may not be American Pit Bull Terriers, but might look kinda like they might be one somewhere in their lines) because it is what is best for them! I mean this will prevent abusive pit bull owners like me from carrying my dogs over the snow to the concrete to potty. If we make the breed extinct, then dogs will not be abused and no one will harm another dog.



And if we just stop using guide dogs and have the government pay to hire full time nursing care then we shall end dog slavery! OHHH and that means we can also pet dogs when we see them, we wont have to look for that vest that says working.



Pulling tongue out of the wall because it went through my cheek and imbedded there.

[Jason Merrihew]

Enough about PETA, I want to learn more about the chickencam! :0)Is there going to be a reality show on Pet Connection?

[Humane Mewsings]

That is extremely disturbing... Even more, it seems that more often than not, PETA is undermining the animal protection movement. I've noticed that some people tend to lump PETA and HSUS in the same category, and that couldn't be more wrong.



PETA's media and publicity tactics send the message that everyone who cares about the well-being of animals is a radical extremist - which is incredibly disheartening.

[Jenniferj]

Last night, my husband and I spent two hours of crashing, cursing and sliding in the mud trying to convince Mushu pig to gratefully accept the shot the vet sent home for her( I swear the dogs were laughing, the kids certainly did). She is one PO'd pig and took the apple I gave her this morning then turned her butt on me. poor little 275 lb thing. Clearly she needs PeTA to come save her and release her from her slavish, tortured existence of two meals, including fresh organic fruit and veggies, a day, half an acre of orchard to roam and two humans slaving to her. Of course, we're evil carnivores, we could just snap and eat her at anytime. I mean we have resisted for twelve years but you never know.



Maybe she and the chickens could form a class action suit. Spoiled, err, I mean exploited, farm animals unite!



PS. Bring on Chickencam!

[letRVoiceBHeard]

And PETA has come to a full circle as this argument about service dogs was brought up back in the late 70's early 80's when they sent out newsletters to members about service dogs. It didn't wash then so they had to put a twist to the mix by trying to get other people with their service dogs on the band wagon sort of speak. This is their tactic from the beginning to get people to fight amongest themselves. (ie hearing vs seeing) as they couldn't go after the largest minority group. It's the old divide and concord tactic.



Next if they follow suit will be after breeders. They will use the same tactic divide and concord hoping they get their point across so more people send them money.

[LauraS]

PETA is undermining the animal protection movement. I’ve noticed that some people tend to lump PETA and HSUS in the same category, and that couldn’t be more wrong.



The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) was an animal welfare organization that has been hijacked by animal rights activists. It is an organization in transition. At the grassroots one can find dedicated HSUS staff whose primary concern is animal welfare. But the senior leadership of HSUS are AR activists, and they have been moving HSUS away from its roots. Read Nathan Winograd's "Redemption" if you think HSUS is still an animal welfare organization. In recent years HSUS has advocated many of the same AR positions as PETA, including:



- lobby for forced sterilization laws for dogs and cats, part of the AR domestic animal "one generation and out" extermination campaign



- opposition to Trap/Neuter/Return for feral cats, preferring to kill them all instead



- advocate killing pit bulls previously owned by dog fighters with no review of individual temperament



- opposition to animal agriculture



- opposition to hunting



Here's some quotes from HSUS President Wayne Pacelle:



"We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding." Animal People, May, 1993



When asked if he envisioned a future without pets, “If I had my personal view, perhaps that might take hold. In fact, I don’t want to see another dog or cat born.” Bloodties: Nature, Culture and the Hunt by Ted Kerasote, 1993, p. 266.



"If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would." Associated Press, Dec 30, 1991



"Our goal is to get sport hunting in the same category as cock fighting and dog fighting." Bozeman (MT) Daily Chronicle, October 8, 1991



Here's some quotes from HSUS Grassroots Coordinator JP Goodwin (a former Animal Liberation Front member):



“We’re ecstatic.” quoted in the Desert News, referring to the March 1997 arson at a farmer’s feed co-op in Utah that caused almost $1 million in damag, which could have killed the family sleeping there



"My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture." AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996.



"It's time for the animal rights movement to take this [fur] industry and drive the final nail into the coffin by whatever means it takes. If that means being outside the executives houses, if that means blockading their doors, whatever it takes." speech at the World Congress for Animals, June 20, 1996



"We have found that civil disobedience and direct action has been powerful in generating massive attention in our communities ... and has been very effective in traumatizing our targets." National Animal Rights Convention '97



And from former Vice President of HSUS Michael W. Fox:



"The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration." The Inhumane Society, New York, 1990



"Humane care (of animals) is simply sentimental, sympathetic patronage." 1988 Newsweek interview

[Gina Spadafori]

Laura,



You know my sense of it is that HSUS is changing again. A few years will show which one of us is right about the direction, but I honestly believe they are at a crossroads. And yes, part of that is from knowing many HSUS staffers, and also in sitting down with Wayne Pacelle himself, one on one, and hearing his answers to some pretty tough questions.



He has offered a long-form Christie-type transcript interview at some point, and I've canceled on the man twice. It's on my to-do list. Stay posted, for we will probably open it up to questions from blog readers as well.

[Selma]

"Here’s some quotes from HSUS Grassroots Coordinator JP Goodwin (a former Animal Liberation Front member)"



Not to mention convicted felon and head of the epically failing 'dog fighting' task force.



So far, Hsus is 0 for 2. Dogs 0. As usual.

[Dorene]

I am not mollified by "chickencam" that there will be no "puppycam" on PetConnection. I am mollified by the idea that I probaly wouldn't be able to tell 8 little squirming bundles of black fur apart anyway, so I should probably be grateful for a cam that will feature individually marked (feathered) creatures that I will actually be able to identify and thus, recognize as individuals, etc.



(Just totally rots when you open up your life to total strangers and they just want more, more, more, eh, Gina? ;-D)

[Gina Spadafori]

I happen to be checking on various cam-buying possibilities at this very moment. Stay tuned.

[stellaluna]

i think that anyone who has any doubt at all that PETA is insane just needs to check out this website of theirs:

http://www.peta.org/sea_kittens/

[LauraS]

You know my sense of it is that HSUS is changing again.



Gina, I agree that HSUS is changing. They have felt the heat from Nathan Winograd's relentless and effective criticisms of HSUS's hypocrisy. They're not stupid, HSUS realizes that to keep their fundraising machine fully functioning, they need to stop publicly dissing the No Kill programs that the public has been increasingly embracing.



I'll believe that HSUS has actually changed for the better -- as opposed to superficial words designed to steal the thunder from Winograd and keep the $$donations$$ flowing in -- when HSUS actively reverses their support of the Pro Kill agenda. To do that, among other things HSUS needs to reverse course and actively

- fight against mandatory spay/neuter laws

- fight for TNR

- fight against pet limit laws

- fight against BSL everytime it rears its head, anywhere (BSL is incredibly common and HSUS could largely stop it by lobbying against it)

- fight against "they're better off dead" discrimination and renounce their previous positions in support of killing dogs seized from dog fighters and hoarders

- fight against the increasingly common gov't laws, ordinances, and actions designed to legislate, regulate, and harass responsible breeders and responsible pet ownership into oblivion

- put most of their $200 million war chest to work to *directly* help animals by funding pet adoption outreach programs instead of continuing to try to impose the AR domestic animal extinction agenda through the force of the law



I know people who were present when Pacelle has spoken at various events. He has been described as an extremely slick and refined version of Judie Mancuso -- a charming ends justifies the means serial liar.



I look forward to your interview with Pacelle. Nail him down on what it REALLY means to embrace No Kill, point by point. Get him to publicly commit to taking the actions listed above. Because to date, many of HSUS's positions have been Pro Kill.

[Anne T]

Maybe it's simpler regarding HSUS. Perhaps the economic crisis has meant a significant drop in funding for HSUS, and Pacelle is rethinking that he needs to abandon ( for now) his radical stance on pet ownership and become more mainstream in order to keep the $$$ rolling in.

[BADKarma]

Just in case anyone is unclear on this concept: PETA and the H$U$ ARE EXACTLY THE SAME ENTITY.



They exchange board members and officers on a regular basis.



They fund the defense of animal "rights" terrorists with equal levels of self-righteous auto-back-patting.



They campaign with equal vigour to get custody of animals so they can kill them, whilst using their images to raise money for their "care and rehabilitation" (see: Michael Vick's pit bulls).



The only difference between PETA and the H$U$ is that PETA has accepted its role as the H$U$'s stalking horse.



Why anyone who genuinely loves animals would listen to, or give a single dime to, ANY animal "rights" organization evades me entirely.

[Gina Spadafori]

Here's a thought: Why don't you try forming your own opinion, instead of parroting someone else's? And by the way, typing your "thoughts" in caps doesn't make them more true, nor does using dollar signs for H$U$ seem clever or original.



I don't buy groupthink or zealotry on either side. We're all about the third way here, solutions not dogma.



Update: It's not that I don't have issues with some HSUS policies. In fact, just after I typed the above, I glanced at Wayne Pacelle's blog, the most recent entry of which is about how the HSUS is working to stop dog-fighters.



What struck me was the last line of the post:



"Please take two minutes to watch this video, which shows our work on the ground to put dogfighters behind bars."



"... and their dogs in the ground," I muttered to myself.



The third way ... stop the fighters, save the dogs.

[BADKarma]

Golly, Gina, are you one of those bigoted little leftie-moos who thinks anyone whose opinion doesn't exactly goose-step with yours must, by definition, be too stupid to form their own opinion, and peforce be "parroting" someone else's? So sad, yet so predictable...

[Gina Spadafori]

No, I'm a liberal-libertarian Obama-voting meat-eating NRA member who fights against factory farms and for heritage breeds and reputable breeders and who recognizes the same pathetic groupthink you share every idiotic time it's posted here.



You can add to the discussions here with some thinking of your own or you can scat. Don't care which you choose.

[Mike Spies]

Gina, I make no assumptions beyond what you stated above...



"I’m a liberal-libertarian Obama-voting meat-eating NRA member who fights against factory farms and for heritage breeds and reputable breeders and who recognizes the same pathetic groupthink every idiotic time it’s posted here."



Doesn't this leave you just a bit conflicted?

[Susan Fox]

BADKarma... I guess the name says it all.

What Gina said, except I haven't been a member of the NRA since I was 16.

[Gina Spadafori]

Mike ... the short version seems pretty conflicted, I'm sure. But it all fits together ... it's about primacy, compassion and stewardship.

[Lori]

Gina- possibly I shouldn't tell you this, but I just forwarded that little exchange to my SO and said "this is why I love her." I think he's jealous. :O)

[Gina Spadafori]

Heh ... I looked at it and thought, "this is why I'm single."



:)

[2CatMom]

Here's to single libertarian/liberal women, (with and without NRA memberships) in the second half century of their lives!



I think we rock!!