My Photo

Keep Up

Flickr


  • www.flickr.com
    christiekeith's items Go to christiekeith's photostream

« Which candidate makes you sing? | Main | Obama Advocate interview »

10 April 2008

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

EmilyS

I used to visit and post frequently at DKos, but won't now because of the incredible bloggerboyz hatred on display, but my experience on dog topics is that your experience was typical. They don't exactly have "progressive" attitudes towards dog ownership issues, or maybe the problem is that they DO have "progressive"/typical liberal attitudes.. more laws! more restrictions on ownership! Let's not examine what the REAL issues are... let's pass MORE LAWS! It's hard to be a liberal in the face of these attitudes.

Dennis

Focus on what we do agree upon... Wow, what a great idea!



Please get well soon Christie! That bronchitis stuff going around is nasty and hangs on.

slt

Good reminder.

I remember some "raw vs. cooked" debates during the pet food recall where one or both sides would get to "you're killing your pet!" pretty quick. No, you're probably not killing your pet unless you are unknowingly feeding him melamine in a can/bag. But surely the PFI and other criminally negligent pet food corps delighted in watching us argue over which was killing pets: raw or cooked. Now they have managed to sail through without making any changes to prevent another mass poisoning and the debate of raw vs. cooked remains unsettled.

Sandi K

I agree Christie, EVERY pet deserves to have safe food regardless if they are fed commercial food or home-cooked. Most shelters cant home-cook, do we tell the pets there, sorry because you cant have home-cooked food, that you are likely to get sick or even die from the commercial food you have to have? Those pets deserve just as safe food as the pets that have a good home. We need to think about the ones that cant speak for themselves and do whatever we can to fight for safe pet food, because whether we like it or not, people will continue to purchase commercial pet food.

Sandi K

I need to add to the above that I in no way mean just because someone feeds their pet commercial food that it isnt a good home, thats been a tactic Ive seen since the recalls and it just isnt true. Im just trying to splain that shelter pets deserve safe food too. I also feed commercial myself.

Russell

I agree: focus on what you're focused on! Don't elect anyone to any office who mistreats dogs, cats, or pets at large whether they have indoor dogs or outdoor ones. There'll be lots of time for us to argue among ourselves. (We'll miss you Saturday; feel better fast.)

The OTHER Pat

With all the recent focus on the Olympic protests vis-a-vis China's treatment of Tibet and Tibetans, I've gotten a bit discouraged over our "message" being lost. That is, that WE (that is, many of us pet owners) are protesting China's hosting of the Olympics based on their role in the sequence of events that led to thousands of pet deaths from tainted food. I tell someone I'm engaging in a personal boycott of the Olympics, they assume it's because of the Tibet situation, I correct that misimpression, and the reaction is something along the lines of "You're worrying about PETS when there are HUMAN RIGHTS abuses going on?!"



But that's the thing - it's all part and parcel of the same problem. The REASON the tainted ingredients made it here under false pretenses had EVERYTHING to do with the Chinese government turning a blind eye to abuses as long as they're not caught, and participating in coverups once they are.



And don't tell me this isn't a human rights issue. After all, WHY do you think all the wheat gluten manufacturing got outsourced to China in the first place? Because when you treat human beings like cattle (and pay them accordingly) of COURSE it's going to cost a lot less to make processed foodstuffs there (the fact that astonished so many of us as the rolling recalls unfurled was that even with shipping and administrative costs worked in - it was STILL cheaper to buy stuff made in China by underpaid Chinese workers than it was to buy stuff made here in the US).



This has just been bugging the heck out of me. The Tibetan problem is certainly significant, but that doesn't make the issues folks here raised about food safety and import/Country of Origin concerns any less valid.

The OTHER Pat

Well, I did a search for Nutro plants shut down, and came up with this interesting article:



http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/nutro_5588___article.html/paying_victorville.html

Pete B

RE-POST OF ITEM ABOVE WITH DATE CORRECTION.THANK YOU FOR NOTING MY ERROR IN LISTING 2007-CORRECTED TO 2008. THANKS. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THIS IS NOT A YEAR AGO BUT VERY CURRENT



REPORTS ON POSSIBLE DOG FOOD POISON



SUNDAY,MAY 4TH, 2008

3.00 P.M.Discussed first concern with Nutro product –Christa/ Manager- Petsmart HoustonShe was also part of information relayed by Nutro onsite rep and heard his description and some of my conversation with him.

Less than a week ago my healthy dog passed away from what emergency vet called ‘sudden death’. At this moment, confirmation of what caused death is not clear but vet may suspect dry food was bad and I am going to have tested. (Vomit was all dry food given to my dog which was NUTRO PRODUCT. Hoping that I did not kill my dog by giving him what I thought was good food, I stopped in to Petsmart today to calm my nerves and be assured that the food in question is fine. What I found was the shelves that contained Nutro Natural Choice were almost bare.(That never has happened) At the aisle with Nutro food they had a Nutro rep stationed here. When I questioned him about why no food was here, he stated that no ‘recall’ is in effect and Nutro just happened to shut down a few plants who were producing what he termed as ,not as tasty food’ and the ‘quality’ was not up to par.Common sense says that the only way a dog can relay that something is not ‘tasty’ is through death or sickness. Seeing that a dog can’t talk, I asked him how they would know it was not ‘tasty’? It seems far more plausible that a company whose main product is dog food would not shut down 2 plants and have no product unless some very extreme situations were coming to light. He stated that the food plant being shut and my dog dying were coincidence. Furthermore, the 800 number he gave me is not being answered now.( I GOT DIFFERENT ONE FROM PETSMART) I have a meeting with Petsmart tomorrow to discuss. I do not blame them right now for the death of my dog, but I stated to the manager I had a BIG issue with them allowing a Nutro rep to tell prospect clients some very vague, questionable, and misleading information, on the status of Nutro food. As noted, the 1-800 number just kept ringing. Additionally, I checked their web site-www.nutroproducts.com and found NO information regarding any plants being shut down. To me, that would be very significant information to relay to all consumers especially if supposed steps were being taken in the best interest of the dog because the food was not as ‘tasty’. Also, letting consumers know info on lack of product and when to expect more would seem to be the obvious steps for anybody not hiding something.I am wanting to save even one person the heartbreak and guilt I am going through and holding those parties accountable. I will not let this be swept under the rug and hopefully will get confirmation I am looking for with testing of Pet food I still have.

Is anyone else from Houston,Tx area or close by who may have has similar experience with Nutro ?

Kaffe

oh lord... something is really realy seriously wrong with this food... so many recent complaints; some with tragic results.

Pete B

REPORTS ON POSSIBLE DOG FOOD POISON SUNDAY,MAY 4TH,20073.00 P.M.Discussed first concern with Nutro product –Christa/ Manager- Petsmart HoustonShe was also part of information relayed by Nutro onsite rep and heard his description and some of my conversation with him.



Less than a week ago my healthy dog passed away from what emergency vet called 'sudden death'. At this moment, confirmation of what caused death is not clear but vet may suspect dry food was bad and I am going to have tested. (Vomit was all dry food given to my dog which was NUTRO PRODUCT. Hoping that I did not kill my dog by giving him what I thought was good food, I stopped in to Petsmart today to calm my nerves and be assured that the food in question is fine. What I found was the shelves that contained Nutro Natural Choice were almost bare.(That never has happened) At the aisle with Nutro food they had a Nutro rep stationed here. When I questioned him about why no food was here, he stated that no 'recall' is in effect and Nutro just happened to shut down a few plants who were producing what he termed as ,not as tasty food' and the 'quality' was not up to par.Common sense says that the only way a dog can relay that something is not 'tasty' is through death or sickness. Seeing that a dog can't talk, I asked him how they would know it was not 'tasty'? It seems far more plausible that a company whose main product is dog food would not shut down 2 plants and have no product unless some very extreme situations were coming to light. He stated that the food plant being shut and my dog dying were coincidence. Furthermore, the 800 number he gave me is not being answered now.( I GOT DIFFERENT ONE FROM PETSMART) I have a meeting with Petsmart tomorrow to discuss. I do not blame them right now for the death of my dog, but I stated to the manager I had a BIG issue with them allowing a Nutro rep to tell prospect clients some very vague, questionable, and misleading information, on the status of Nutro food. As noted, the 1-800 number just kept ringing. Additionally, I checked their web site-www.nutroproducts.com and found NO information regarding any plants being shut down. To me, that would be very significant information to relay to all consumers especially if supposed steps were being taken in the best interest of the dog because the food was not as 'tasty’. Also, letting consumers know info on lack of product and when to expect more would seem to be the obvious steps for anybody not hiding something.I am wanting to save even one person the heartbreak and guilt I am going through and holding those parties accountable. I will not let this be swept under the rug and hopefully will get confirmation I am looking for with testing of Pet food I still have.



Is anyone else from Houston,Tx area or close by who may have has similar experience with Nutro ?

slt

Pete B - I'm very sorry for your loss. Have you checked these links?



http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/pet_food_recalls93.html



http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/nutro.html

Carol V

Pam---I think he typed this last night as it was a sunday and he just posted it---wouldn't make sense for it to be info from a year ago--and the 4th wasn't a sunday in 2007 so I agree with you! I posted this at itchmo at the forums so more can see it---I hope he posts it at consumer affairs too--This brand keeps coming up much more than others--and there was a poster over at the forums a few weeks ago that "supposedly" heard of the CA plant closing for problems---but has not substantiated that yet--and hasn't been back since after mentioning "whistleblower" protection...maybe the CEO will come on here or itchmo as the two others (Nature's Variety and Evangers) have done lately ??

Pam

I am wondering.Is this a typo on the year??? Should it be 2008? ?

REPORTS ON POSSIBLE DOG FOOD POISON SUNDAY,MAY 4TH,20073.00

Carol V

Pete B- consumeraffairs.com has a section to report your problems with Nutro and other pet foods---



http://consumeraffairs.com/pets/nutro.html

slt

Comment by The OTHER Pat — May 5, 2008 @ 4:49 pm



Are all pet food plants this stinky I wonder? I've never lived near one but this makes me wonder about the locations of other plants - if they are near residential areas and if anyone has noticed similar stenches.

Pete B

On a related question I have about my dog that had sudden death from possible dog food.



I need opinion. I called my vet I have gone to for 10 years and discussed with them my dog that died. They are close by but are also VERY expensive but do not want to travel across town. I have another dog as well. I called them today to question why ,or why not, they are not more pro active on making all pet owners aware of possible bad dog food and keeping pet owner's informed and Dog Food manufacturers accountable. I noted that they are very diligent and persisting about being a responsible dog owner and keeping him healthy. I am good with that.



However, when I asked that if they are taking such a aggressive approach with clients and insisting on the them taking a responsible approach to pet ownership when pets are alive, shouldn't that also apply to dogs in death and connecting possible puzzle together if strange deaths are occuring ? I told them that I have spent a large sum of money with them over the years, happily if it keeps my dogs healthy. In death though, I have been getting a hard time getting some follow up answers.



When I fianlly spoke with them today, I noted information above, and was a bit disturbed that the whole promotion of having healthy, happy pets is only valid if they are selling me something.



The response she gave me was insulting and infuriating to someone who just lost a beloved friend suddenly after nine years-She said.



" We are not about money, we waived the fee for consultation after your dog died".



My dog dies, they are the primary care vet for the past nine years, I have spent over

$12,000 with them for both dogs in that time frame, and she thinks by waiving consultation fee to simply speak Vet in my time of grief, is some noble and hearfelt jesture from a business perspective.



To me, the simple fact that she noted that and would charge someone in that type of dark hour is disgusting!!! Nine years of being a client and what does that get me- waiving a $75.00 fee to discuss losing my best friend.



The Vet is in Hoston called-West Houston Veterinary-www.whvma.com/I believe the woman I spoke with is Anja.



Is that not something I should be offended about?

Kristi

The symptoms dog owners are reporting on Consumer Affairs with Nutro Lamb and Rice are exactly what my dog went through January 2007 with Nature's Recipe Lamb and Rice. She had bloody stools, blood in urine and liver involvement. So now we should have a very good idea of what it is/was when this gets tested. Right?

Gina Spadafori

From the very beginning of the pet-food recall, we at Pet Connection have stressed the importance of a national reporting system for veterinarians.



Not only to track emerging healthy issues for pets, but also to protect PEOPLE, since health crises (hello Avian Flu) often emerge in animal populations first, and would be spotted by veterinarians.



Veterinarians are an essential part of our national security system, and we honestly don't understand why the government is so reluctant to see this.

The OTHER Pat

Comment by Pete B — May 6, 2008 @ 12:55 am



"I called them today to question why ,or why not, they are not more pro active on making all pet owners aware of possible bad dog food and keeping pet owner’s informed and Dog Food manufacturers accountable."



Pete, what came to mind as I read this was the need (written about here many times) for a nationwide veterinary reporting system. Any given vet is going to hesitate to sound an alarm due to one incident that may or may not be due to the food being fed because if they're wrong, they could get sued. But if there were simply a reporting system - no accusations, just information accumulated in a database - then overall patterns would become clear, and no single vet or practice should have to fear such liability.



Your experience is a good example of the need for such a nationwide reporting system for vets.

Colorado Transplant

Just wondered what group would undertake a nationwide reporting system for vets.



It is a lot of work and takes a lot of money. The present government certainly will not help.

I, myself, certainly think it would help tremendously but am skeptical if any group would be motivated enough to begin such a system.

slt

Can a national veterinary organization take responsibility for the task instead of waiting to see if the government will get around to it?

The OTHER Pat

Wasn't VIN taking some steps in that direction?

Gina Spadafori

VIN (the Veterinary Information Network) is a privately held company, not a trade group or a governmental agency.



Although the reality -- in the absence of any official reporting agency -- is that things tend to pop up first on VIN because veterinarians share information there, I wouldn't think it fair to ask a small business to take on a government agency or trade group's work.



In not sure it's a trade group's job, either, so the AVMA may not be a good choice. Not to slight the AVMA (who ended up doing a pretty good job during the recall), trusting ANY industry group to monitor a public trust is problematic at best, given their first responsibility is to their members and that they work closely with industry "stakeholders."



Personally, I think it has to be a function of the Centers for Disease Control.

Pam

PETE..........



May I have your permission to put the post you corrected the date on, in its entirety on my forum in the Nutro Board and then put a link back to here, for the continued reading and updates to the thread?

slt

I guess my thinking is: could a national veterinary group take on the task while we wait for the govt. to step up? Because we don't know when the govt. might get around to it and we know there is a need now. And since a national veterinary group would be an established entity, maybe they could add this to their plate temporarily. I agree there are drawbacks to this idea but I can't think of a better one. Otherwise, it looks like pet owners surfing the internet remains the only alternative. That's got a few drawbacks as well.

Pete B

Pam,



Feel free to Post my information and corrected date on what has transpired with my dog and his sudden passing.

Regarding the discussion above, my point on Vets and information is not to blame them or make them the ultimate culprit of responsibility. What I think they truly need to be though is proactive about a pet, not only in life, but in death as well.. We have human doctors that communicate constantly regarding higher numbers of patients with certain symptoms or sickness they are experiencing. When that information is shared and ,ultimately examined, most times a common denominator is established on the cause of illness.



We all would be infuriated if a extremely contagious disease or other was being transmitted and our medical community allowed it to continue without it's own investigation or not letting the public be informed and advised. Yet with our animal care system, we seem to not expect the same due diligence be rendered?

What makes this even more ironic is the expenses we all incur with any type of family pet. Just think how much you have paid a vet for your current pets care or past? Very few of us would say no to some emergency procedure to save a pet's life regardless of cost. All that money being generated is, for the most part, out of our own pocket and not through medical insurance like human healthcare is. (In other words, cash on the spot!)

My point to all that is , Vets expect and get money up front, that day, in full. Any human doctor’s office would call that a dream scenario. Most vets refer to our pets as 'your child'. What good parent would allow 'their child' to die and accept the possibilities that it could have been prevented by awareness through communication?



Again, I am not in any form 'bashing' any Vet or vet hospital. These people have put extreme time and energy to get where they are today. Many do not follow items I have listed above because it is not expected.



The only way to enhance certain established protocols is to change the low expectations we allow to persist and make all parties be held to a simple standard-



Accountability.



Pete B

Pam

Hi Pete,



Thank you and I am so sorry for the lost of your beloved companion. I have put the post here on my forum with a link back to hear. If you have any additions or corrections you want done, or extra links, let me know and I will add them.

http://www.animalsspeak.org/2008-05-08-nutro-fed-dog-dies-owner-seeking-others-in-texas-t801.html#1126

Pam

Pete,



Someone on one of my lists just asked me if the one you were feeding was Natural Choice? I told her I would ask you for sure which one you were feeding and if you have lot/use by numbers, that would be great too :)

BTW, how did the meeting with Pet Smart go?

Pete B

Hi Pam,



I do not have the bag still as I typically open bag and put into large plasitc container that is air tight and keep for freshness.

I bought this on Easter Sunday.I am sending contents to testing labs that have been recommended. Meeting went well with Petsmart manager and I have been given time with GM tomorrow. I have spoken with him on the phone already and he does seem genuinely alarmed of the items he already has been informed of. I will let you know. Spoke with a reporter from consumer affairs today about letter I had sent to them and they posted. She wanted some additional information and was extremely helpful.



Thanks

The comments to this entry are closed.

Enter your email address:

Delivered by FeedBurner