Pet food recall: Thoughts and questions

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So, a number of things jumped to my mind during and after today's media telebriefing which I liveblogged here, but first I would just like to mention that, while I may have been reporting all along on the music that's been playing while we wait for the conferences to begin, USA Today science writer Elizabeth Weise actually told the FDA about it today! And thanked them for upgrading it from [redacted trademark for tinny canned music of awesome horribleness] to oldies. YOU GO, ELIZABETH!

When I liveblog, to an extent my mind goes blank and I just type. Every now and then something leaps out at me, something that either makes me want to look a little deeper, or something that makes my head explode me think.

I marked a number of things for further digging on today's liveblogging, but the one that's stuck in my head is this -- and again, let me restate my disclaimer, that unless something is in quotation marks it is a paraphrase, and not a direct quote:

NPR: Regarding import alert on vegetable protein, what volume is involved? Is FDA testing these imports, if not who is, and what have results shown so far?

Acheson: Import alert is 100 percent. Stopping EVERY vegetable protein concentrate from China. To get it released, company has to come to us with validated tests, paperwork, assurances, that this material is okay, free of melamine and other compounds. Sampling assignment is different. We have 100 percent sampling assignment on pet food. That means WE take the samples and process them in our labs.

I'm pretty sure most of us, including me, assumed that the US government was actually testing samples from 100 percent of the vegetable protein concentrates from China named in the import alert, not just having the companies assure them with validated tests, paperwork, and assurances that the material is okay. Didn't Wilbur-Ellis and ChemNutra also have such validations and tests? Wouldn't they have made such assurances?

As to sampling pet food, which they are doing with pet food made in China, how does that play into their repeated insistence that they are prioritizing based on where they know the "known risks" are?

No pet food manufactured in China itself has, to my knowledge, been recalled. All the recalled pet foods were made in this country with vegetable protein concentrates FROM China. They were sold not for the pet food market exclusively, but as ingredients that could have been made into human products, although FDA currently does not believe that happened with those two shipments.

So tell me, why are they testing Chinese-manufactured pet foods, which as far as I know are not at issue in the recall, and not doing sampling and testing of vegetable protein concentrates from China, which are?

UPDATE: Did salmon fed contaminated feed get released to the wild? An online newspaper in Canada wants to know.

Update 2: On testing, up from the comments, which directed me back to the import alert itself, which details some of the testing requirements:

Districts may detain without physical examination, all Vegetable protein products from China.

My only comment here is, "may"? Is this being done in all cases, or is it optional?

In order to adequately assess whether a manufacturer has the appropriate controls and processes in place to ensure the quality of the product being produced, the firm or shipper must provide the following information:

1. Documentation showing that a minimum of five (5) consecutive entries have been released by FDA based on third party laboratory analyses using FDA recommended methods and that all shipments did not contain the presence of melamine and/or melamine analogs.

My question here is, can those third party analyses have been done in the country of origin, or do they have to be done here?

AND

2. Certificate, such as from AQSIQ (Christie's note: AQSIQ is a Chinese agency), indicating that an inspection of the manufacturer was conducted and adequate controls are in place. Information should also include:

a. Copy of the inspectional reports and compliance status of the manufacturer.

b. If products were sampled during the course of the inspection, test results indicating that the products are free of melamine and/or melamine analog.

"IF products were sampled." But no requirement for them to have been.

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Comments

[Kim]

Kim would answer with something snarky, but her head has exploded.

[Mike]

Although we might hope that the federal government is testing all imported protean concentrates, the reality of the situation is they probably don't have the staff or resources to do so.



But requiring the importers to provide validated test results is an improvement over what existed before. Before, the importer just accepted certification from the exporting company. Now the importer needs to have the product tested once it gets here.

[Christie Keith]

Ooops.

[Ally]

And Ally can't reply with anything worth a hoot because Kim and Therese got all of us stark raving blitzed on tequila.

[sam]

Gina/Christie



Sort of baffled me too. The other thing that is just nuts is "we don't know what it is" referring to the "wheat flour/stuff/??" THey have had this stuff for over a month and they still don't know what it is??????



And yes I thought they were NOW testing the vegetable additives, apparently they are looking at certificates, which if I remember correctly the original shipments that were tainted did have.



Have we gotten anywhere in the last 7 weeks??



boom, head went off again. Don't know about the rest of you but it is getting harder to find all the pieces.



sam

[Ally]

Comment by Ally — May 10, 2007 @ 2:06 pm



(though I can't remember if we got tanked before or after all the brains went a'splodey)



Good grief.

I'm quoting my own post.



*horrified*



btw - thanks muchly Christie for yet another liveblog installment of "Groundhog Day - FDA Style".

[sam]

Mike



Don't want to disagree, but reviewing the live blog I don't see anywhere that it says they are going to do testing here.



It just says that they have to show test results, which they can forge just like they have been doing.



sam

[Christie Keith]

Comment by Mike — May 10, 2007 @ 2:04 pm:



Although we might hope that the federal government is testing all imported protean concentrates, the reality of the situation is they probably don’t have the staff or resources to do so.



That's like saying, "We might hope the buildings would all have fire escapes, but they don't." Yes, I agree. That's the problem, isn't it? Although I'd argue they don't appear, at least at the staffing level that is speaking to the press, to have the will, either.



But requiring the importers to provide validated test results is an improvement over what existed before. Before, the importer just accepted certification from the exporting company. Now the importer needs to have the product tested once it gets here.



That may be true. Do you have a particular background or special industry or regulatory agency information that would lead us to give your statement credibility?



Because I am far, far from alone in being surprised at having this spelled out.



Nor is it at all clear that all products are being tested once they arrive here, by anyone. They said in the media briefing that it was taken on a case-by-case basis.



I think we need a lot more information even to concede your less-than-reassuring point, that things are at least better than they were -- both about what is currently happening with these shipments before they are released, and the basis of your information.

[sam]

Christie



"To get it released, company has to come to us with validated tests, paperwork, assurances, that this material is okay, free of melamine and other compounds"



I believe that this is the quote in question. Does that mean testing here or tests have been performed before shipping??



Who is doing the testing? Where? When



sam

[Cynthia]

Which pet foods are made in China? Anyone know?



It seems to me that the whole testing thing isn't any different than before except that they require some validation documents from ALL shipments now from the supplier. I guess this would be instead of validation documents from no shipments.

[Mike]

Sam -- Hmmm. Maybe I'm inferring too much. But if "To get it released, company has to come to us with validated tests, paperwork, assurances, that this material is okay, free of melamine and other compounds" only means showing a Chinese invoice indicating "Quality: Pure. Appearance: Nice. Taste: Normal with Grain Delicious", then we really haven't gained anything.



http://sdsternpr.com/chemnutra/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/suzhou.pdf

[Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat)]

Fromms pet food-made in China

[sam]

Mike



See this is what I am reading. It DOES NOT say that the "company" (importer) must test it here, it just says must show tests have been done. I believe the FDA would be explicit about that or should have been explicit about where and when testing is done.



sam

[E. Hamilton]

Have the FDA quit lying ?

Then what is the point?

They are lying so hard , about so many things that it is hard to tell whether to care!

[Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat)]

about the testing: it is written up here:

http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia9929.html



In order to adequately assess whether a manufacturer has the appropriate controls and processes in place to ensure the quality

of the product being produced, the firm or shipper must provide the following information:



1. Documentation showing that a minimum of five (5) consecutive entries have been released by FDA based on third party laboratory analyses using FDA recommended methods and that all shipments did not contain the presence of melamine and/or melamine analogs.



AND



2. Certificate, such as from AQSIQ, indicating that an inspection of the manufacturer was conducted and adequate controls are in place.





not that I understand all that

[Steve]

"Wow thats awesome"



'Yeah, good thing we're safe'



"Thanks to the government"



'Okay lets go and have a look at the damage'



http://tinyurl.com/yvak5p

[CCnDuke]

"Nestle, the world's largest food company, will open its first pet food factory in China this year as it tries to take a bite out of Mars Inc's Chinese market share. Mars has been in China for 10 years, and sells a lot of Pedigree and Whiskas to the local market through an alliance with a Chinese company, in this case Effem Foods (Beijing) Co. Ltd. Nestle may benefit from newer foreign ownership regulations."

[sam]

Peggy



OK read the specs but still don't see where the testing needs to be done, still can be done by shipper. Maybe I am missing something.



sam

[straybaby]

not that I understand all that



Comment by Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat) — May 10,





i read that to say that if ChemNutra imports 5 batches that clear Inspection, the 6th one can be full of crap and oh yeah, they inspected the factory before they bulldozed it . . .

[Cynthia]

Sam. It doesn't specify WHERE the test is done as long as it's done by the methods established by the FDA and that they can demonstrate a 'clean' history of 5 shipments. and that they've shown to some other acronym that they've inspected the facilities that the stuff came from.

[Cynthia]

and thanks folks for the Chinese mfg of pet food imported here... and isn't it beyond strange that those brands have not been recalled? ooo and didn't nestle just buy gerber baby food?

[Linda]

We simply don't know who or what to believe anymore. When people lie and hide the truth, what do we believe? Until we are at a brick wall - we simply don't trust what we hear, or what we see, or even what we thought was true. I'm eating all fresh these days.



There's a great mareket called Davis Ranch near me - and that's where I'll be buying all my produce.

[sam]

Peggy



Good point. 5 out of 6 ain't bad. Still not clear to me either what the hell it all means. AQSIQ is a department of the Chinese government that inspects this stuff. Like we are supposed to trust them?



So the Chinese are supposed to inspect the factory then someone somewhere inspects the stuff then it gets shipped here and if 5 loads pass then they can go back to crap again?



I think I am going to start drinking again.

sam

[straybaby]

"and isn’t it beyond strange that those brands have not been recalled?"



i would guess they were more than aware of the problem . . . .

[Steve]

Apr 27, 2007

Food and Drug Administration officials searched an Emporia, Kan., pet food plant operated by Menu Foods and the Las Vegas offices of ChemNutra Inc.



So what did the FDA do? Say, "You guys better get this place cleaned up before the public sees it"?

[Peggy (AKA: Big Fat Momma Cat)]

like I said; I don't follow it, no idea what that means or how it works

[Steve]

April 12, 2007



"The pet food industry has been working diligently with the Food and Drug Administration, which has led the investigation to understand the cause of this incident since we learned of the first recall," Ekedahl said. "As part of this continuing effort, the commission will augment the FDA's work and make recommendations so that consumers continue to be confident in the food they feed their pets."

[straybaby]

" . . . so that consumers continue to be confident in the food they feed their pets.”



LMAO! what planet is the guy hangin' on?!

[MFEMFEM]

I sure trust those third party labs, especially the ones in China.



Yes, yes, yes, certification documents certified by the sellers and shippers and their labs. People who would sell and ship poison would never falsify documents or pay bribes, never, never. Just like the silk suits from the PFI say, there is already enough government regulation, the industry can do a fine job of policing itself. The same MUST be true of the sellers and shippers (and those 3rd party labs), must be true.





Are the pigs flying yet?

[Steve]

April 12, 2007



The Pet Food Institute called any proposal for deeper federal regulations of the industry "presumptuous."

[straybaby]

so do we know if the fish is already out for consumption?



this is gonna be H*** on my sushi addiction . . .

[Maureen]

Protein insufficiency? Were our pets suffering from malnutrition too? There was this provocative exchange during the press call now that we've found out that our pets weren't getting higher protein wheat gluten but low protein wheat flour (spiked with more melamine, etc. than previously thought to give a higher nitrogen/protein reading):



"Steve Dale: This wasn’t real protein if it was wheat flour. May have been going on a long time. Were our pets, esp cats, not getting enough protein (...)"



"Dr. Sundloff: That’s a reasonable point to raise. All the pets that are commercially available are nutritionally balanced to meet the needs of dogs and cats. Too little protein can make problems. (...) At this point, not aware of any nutritional deficiencies due to substitution of a less than potent protein supplement into the pet food."

[CCnDuke]

Just a little blurb I have found from a "company" that calls itself "shanghai enterprises inc."

>>>

Dear Customer:

There is lots of production recall, but not our production, you could visit web at: http://www.menufoods.com/recall/product_dog.html . to find the list of recall production names. If you still have any question, pls feel free to contact us at : [email protected]



To our valuable customers who purchased Bestro's Roasted Chicken Jerky Treats :

According to WHO (World Health Organization),The H5N1 virus is sensitive to heat. Normal temperatures used for cooking (70℃ or 158℉ in all parts of the food) will kill the virus. For more details about Avian influenza ("bird flu"), please visit the web page below:







How were the Bestro's Roasted Chicken Jerky Treats made?



1) Materials only derived from the vet. office & department of agriculture approved farms & slaughterhouse.

2) Roasted under 75℃-85℃ (167℉-185℉) for more than 10 hours.

3) Go through our unique microwave system under 120℃ (248℉) to ensure the CORE temperature meets the minimum standard of 70℃ (158℉) to kill the virus in ALL PARTS.

4) Treated by irradiation (Gamma Ray) to eliminate the harmful bacteria.

>>>>

So that means they use material from the "vet. office" to make their treats? And are concerned about Avian Flu?

[Maureen]

Here's another factoid about cats and perhaps explains why they are such picky eaters. I include this because I suspect that our pets eating the contaminated foods were also subjected to very low protein diets, besides the poison they were ingesting:



"Some animals reject food because the food doesn't have enough amino

acids. Pets have nutrient sensors in their brains that tell them when

food is deficient in amino acids. The pet's brain (anterior piriform

cortex) sends signals to the nerves controlling food intake, and if

there is insufficient protein then the pet isn't stimulated to eat.

Thus, pets have evolved with a natural preference for foods with

nutritious levels of protein."



See #8: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:iNlU8iyaYJIJ:groups.google.nl/group/PETSHEARTREACH/msg/86e9c8161d63394f+cat+nutrition+%22insufficient+protein%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=26&gl=us

[CCnDuke]

Oooops forgot to put the link:

http://www.dogchews.com/gsjj.asp

[Steve]

So like, where is the brighter future the PFI and NPFC promises everyone?

[Linda]

I'm hoping all you guys will figure it out and tell me what's going on. I've reach my saturation point.

[Katie]

Does anyone know - when we send food products to Europe do we test them and Europe accepts? or do they test???



Worrisome to think that any 3rd world country is going to test food,vitamins,etc. properly and to our standards. And be honest and trustworthy!



My other thought - what happens if a raw ingredient from China or wherever goes to Spain, is added to or made into a second product which is than shipped here! I wonder how the supply chain is going to be checked at each point....isn't that how the cont. cough syrup sent to Panama wasn't found.



And, still wondering if pet food contains cont. fish meal???



Katie

[Steve]

Comment by Katie — May 10, 2007 @ 3:50 pm



China and most other newbies are protected by Newly Industrialized Country Status.



NIC is a category between developed and developing countries, and it includes South Africa, Mexico, China, Malaysia, Brazil, the GCC states, India, Philippines, Thailand and Turkey.



We consumers here in the USA get stuck with the garbage and junk they produce.

[Mike]

Ignore my previous comments. Testing by AQSIQ is Chinese testing certified by a Chinese agency. If we aren't going to trust US agencies, we sure as heck aren't going to trust a Chinese agency.

[MFEMFEM]

Got thirsty this afternoon and the sanck bar was closed. Decided to try a cool can of apple juice from the vending machine. The vending machine sign said 100% juice. Put my 85 cents in, got my juice. Can said "100% juice plus additional ingredients", then I found it. The juice in this can is from Brazil, Argentina, and China! The added vitamin C was likely from China too (almost all vitamin C available in the US now comes from China - their cheap labor drove domestic producers out of business).



I was thirsty but didn't open the can - juice sourced from China - I'll NEVER knowingly drink it or buy it again, NEVER!

[Steve]

Comment by MFEMFEM — May 10, 2007 @ 4:06 pm



Guess what China has plans to takeover the Apple Market.



May 7, 2007

Apple growers, like furniture makers, now face direct competition from China. Johnson says Chinese workers are paid about 28-cents an hour.



Just 15 years ago, the Chinese exported almost no apples. Now, China is the world's largest producer. And has flooded the world market.



http://tinyurl.com/yuoddb

[petlover]

And China's number one agricultural goal is to break into the U.S. cooked chickens market.



I am dead serious. This information, I think, was posted at Itchmo earlier today.



I wrote to my senators and told them that we don't want Chinese chickens. For that matter, we don't even want our own -- at least the ones with melamine!

[Steve]

Comment by petlover — May 10, 2007 @ 4:15 pm



I say it's time to march on Washington and demand and end to this scam. These traders and executives running these multi nationals are getting rich and laughing all the way to the bank while we get slowly poisoned to death.

[Ann H]

One item still concerns me. They're testing muscle meats.



Who tests the by-products? Right now, it's looking like it's the PFI testing on the ingredient level or finished product level.



Now, that's still not a comfort zone for pet foods.



In 1991, FSIS issued testing protocols for cyromazine and melamine. They were testing muscle meat of poulty and beef.



http://www.fsis.usda.gov/ophs/clg/Cyromazine.pdf



For poultry, I'd like to know if they are checking the liver & gizzard too. Does anybody kknow?



And, this brings up another step backwards search for why they did the protocol.



We know the pet food recall caused them to develop the protocol & MDS that we just saw at Itchmo's.



Does anybody already know what prompted the 1991 testing of poultry & beef. Did this coincide with the 90's when the EPA set maximine levels of melamine exposure? (FOIA?)



Has Acheson indicated the relationship of the levels now to that standard? Or, are they raising the bar?

[MFEMFEM]

The government of communist China will destroy us. It won't be a shooting war. We will all die from renal failure brought on by plasticized kidneys (well not all of us, the billionaires will still be around to scavenge gold from our teeth and render our carcasses for pet food export).



I expect AAFCO and it's one employee will survive to certify the rendered pet food's high protein content.

[Joyce]

Comment by Katie — May 10, 2007 @ 3:50 pm



I had a similar thought regarding products from China going through other countries. Also, what is prevent a supplier from china shipping to another country, then having it imported to the US? If they shippied through a country it wouldn't even raise the Chinese "red flag" (bad pun?)

[Ann H]

So far, one item that got referenced either here, south africa or europe - china shipped thru netherlands to them. I have to look that one up....

[Trudy Jackson]

We should stop bying anything from china. Maybe the Gov. would notice? That means places like "The Doller Tree" should be off limits. Places We know buy everything from China. we are giving them all our money. We have lots of small cheap stores going up everywhere. and they all sell things from China! Trudy

[straybaby]

"My only comment here is, “may”? Is this being done in all cases, or is it optional?"



my impression is everything is optional/voluntary . . .



after all, the FDA can only urge/suggest a recall . . . and they don't think more inspections will change anything . . . so i guess everyone is just going through the motions?