Pet food recall: Liveblogging 5/3 FDA press conference

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I am liveblogging today's FDA press telebriefing. They give the topic as "Joint FDA/USDA update on adulterated feed."

Present will be:

--David Acheson, M.D., assistant commissioner for food protection, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
--Captain David Elder, U.S. Public Health Service, director, Office of Enforcement, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
--Julie Zawisza, assistant commissioner for public affairs, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
--Kenneth Petersen, D.V.M., M.P.H., assistant administrator for field operations, Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA

As always: I'm doing this live. There will be typos. Anything not in quotation marks is a paraphrase. Just hit refresh periodically to see the info as I update this post.

4:08 PM ET: Telebriefing has not begun yet. Musical accompaniment (note how I avoid trademarked term) is an instrumental version of "I Know I'll Never Love This Way Again."

4:12 PM ET: We begin.

Julie Zawisza introduces. Update on contaminated feed. Only one speaker, Dr. David Acheson. Then Q&A with Dr. Petersen from USDA, FDA's Dr. Stephen Sundloff, Michael Rogers, Walter Batts, David Elder.

Dr. Acheson: Says he will go over the recent expanded Menu recall, history of wheat gluten, issues of safety of consuming contaminated food, and update on investigation with China. [The rest is after the jump.]

"Put us all on the same page with wheat gluten." Can go to either pet or human food. "In current investigation," ALL ended up in pet food system. We learned about this whole thing because of sick or dying pets. Once we knew contaminated wheat gluten ended up in pet food supply, we asked did any get into the human chain?

We have done extensive investigation into that system and have found no evidence any of those contaminated lots ended up as an ingredient in human food. Stressed "as an ingredient." None of the contaminated wheat gluten ended up in the human chain.

A portion of the contaminated pet food was incorporated into feed for hogs and poultry, some of which have entered the food supply. Will say more about that later.

Then said "likewise the rice protein concentrate."

Speaking of pet food, Menu foods did expand their recall, will not go into it, referred to their website for more info. Said it's cross-contamination problem. The information on that is posted already.

The human health impact. This has all gone down the pet food side. The only connection is when pet food is used as human food (I think he meant animal feed?). It is extremely unlikely there is a human health effect here. Explains the dilution effect.

When contaminated wheat gluten comes into the country, only 5-8 percent is melamine. Wheat gluten is not an exclusive ingredient of the pet food. Only a small portion of the pet food is then made into animal feed. Once it's gone into the poultry and hogs, a "small portion of the meat on the market will potentially contain very low levels of melamine." But poultry and pork do not eat EXCLUSIVELY poultry and pork.

There is a series of dilution steps. Original contaminated wheat gluten to pet food to animal feed, then the amount of the animals the humans will consume. A dramatic dilution of the contamination, to the point where "we believe the likelihood of a human illness is very remote."

Goes back and says he is not saying people are eating pet food, but the whole process by which it goes to be animal feed then into the human food chain when people eat the meat.

Next point is our proactive strategy.

Two key elements.

Imports: FDA working with customs and border protection has an import alert in place for protein concentrates of vegetable origin from China. They are held at the border and can only enter US commerce when we are condident they are safe to proceed. Preventing further input of contaminated protein concentrates of vegetable origin from China.

Domestic: Investigators are going out to manufacturers who use protein concentrates and raising awareness about supply chain importance, and if they have rec'd ingredients from China that have not been used, make sure they are tested for melamine and melamine compounds. To ensure anything "that is currently in the US is safe to consume."

Few numbers: We have tested approx. 700 samples of finished pet food or the ingredients. Approx. 400 have tested positive. Some have been multiple samples from the same lot. 92 lots total tested positive. All positive samples have come from the two companies we already know about. So far, all the positives have tracked back to companies we're already aware of, that's what all the recalls have been about.

Now, China:

Nothing much to report. We are there, an investigation has begun.

Abigail Goldman, LA Times: Can you confirm an arrest was made in China, and are you holding ingredients labeled "non-food"?

Julie Z: Please direct first question to Chinese law enforcement.

Dr. Acheson: If fraudulently labeled, we won't necessarily know about that.

Abigail: Is that part of what caused the problem here?

Acheson: No. We have no evidence to suggest that is going on.

Boston Globe: Are investigators on the ground in China and seeing use of melamine or related compounds there?

Dr. Acheson: Good question, will investigate.

Joe Johns, CNN: Amount of date you've been able to recover on testing to say with confidence melamine did not reach into the human food chain except for the animals?

Acheson: The investigation of the contaminated pet food has been exhaustive. The investigation continues. Tracing back from sick animals then forward from the contaminated wheat gluten, and hence the host of recalls you have seen. I am confident none of those two contaminated batches have ended up in the human food chain.

Joe Johns: Said wheat gluten went into baby food? Have you looked into baby food?

Acheson: What gluten and RCP go in many directions, but there is no evidence it's ended up in baby food or any other human food as an ingredient.

Randy Schmitt, AP: When talking earlier about sending investigators to look at wheat gluten still in the hands of manufacturers, is that pet or human food?

Acheson: Both.

David Curley, ABC News: You say these contaminated lots didn't go into the human food chain, but this sounds like a standard practice with the Chinese. How do we know this hasn't been going on a long time? And if it's not okay in pet food, why is it okay in human food?

Acheson: Could it have been going on for years? Sure it could. We cannot rule that out. Something was different this time, where the contamination led to sick pets and came to the attention of pet owners and federal authorities. We can speculate why that happened or how long, the bottom line is we don't know.

David Curley: If 3 million chickens have gone into the food supply, why is that okay, but not in pet food?

Acheson: Dilution effect restatement. I'm sparing my wrists and not retyping it.

CNN: Updated poultry numbers?

Ken Petersen: Poultry numbers from Tuesday are still the numbers.

Acheson also reminded ALL the known shipments went into pet food.

Julie Schmitt, USA Today: Can you tell us anything about the SmartPak recall? The product had melamine, but doesn't contain any of the ingredients from China?

David Elder: That product did contain RPC?

Julie Schmitt: No, this is another product, it was just tested last night.

Elder: We believe this is cross-contamination.

Julie Schmitt: 92 positive contaminated lots out of how many?

Acheson: "If it's negative, we're not going to go chasing it down."

CBS News: Any comment on new reports it was common practice for Chinese manufacturers to label food products as non-food products to escape detection?

Acheson: Need to see what Chinese investigation reveals.

Dan from CNN: Cross contamination - what does that mean exactly? Some vets say pets are still dying from food contaminated from cross contamination. Is food left over in a machine enough to kill an animal?

Acheson: It can mean all kind of things. You can get bacteria crossing between raw meat and salad. In this case, the manufacturer thinks there is cross contamination - said they needed to do a recall. Doesn't know how or to what extent.

Dan: But it's enough to cause death in animals, doesn't that mean we should be concerned about small amounts in human foods?

Acheson: Cross contamination doesn't mean it was a small amount. Might have also been caution.

Wall Street Journal: Is there any contaminated pork or poultry on the market currently today?

Petersen: No. The swine farms and poultry farms - the chicken went to slaughter in February. Dilution factors. We have no reason to believe those animals are any risk to the public. Same with swine.

WSJ: I understand you don't think there is a risk, but is there any meat that might have been contaminated by this feed on the market today?

Petersen: No. Recall ruled out.

Chicago Tribune: 394 positive tests, what levels? And is melamine causing animals to fall sick and die, or some other possible cause?

Acheson: Variable levels, between 0.2-8 percent.

Chicago Tribune: Was it the melamine that sickened animals?

Acheson: Toxicity studies indicate melamine is not particularly toxic except in very high doses. Conundrum. Melamine related compounds, such as cyanuric acid - combination with melamine appears to be more toxic than either one alone. Thinking is, greater tendency to form crystals in the kidneys when combined. Current hypothesis is the combination.

Reuters: China investigation - how many investigators, will more go?

Acheson: No, can't say more.

Reuters: Asked about pet death numbers. Knows are not confirmed, but can you update reports?

Sundloff: No new numbers. We are continuing to add more phone calls than we've been able to log. Trying to catch up with backlog. Imagine at next press conference we can update the numbers.

Michael Rogers: Clarify we've received over 17,000 complaints, around 50 percent alleging an animal death.

Acheson: Emphasizes ALLEGE. No proof.

Dow Jones: Back to pork and poultry. Is it "not on the market" because it's been eaten? What about frozen foods?

Petersen: The pet food traceback is winding down. That's how we became aware of pet food making its way into animal food. Investigation is ongoing.

Dow Jones: I want to make sure I'm clear. It's your belief those 3 million chickens have already been consumed. If the meat is tainted, it's already been consumed?

Petersen: There is no evidence of any harm to humans.

NY Times: Current proactive program. If vegetable protein concentrates have veered off in different directions, how do you determine which facilities to visit?

Acheson: Import records, data set... combined with local knowledge.

NYT: How many?

Acheson: Hundreds, but that's a guess.

Baltimore Sun: Found melamine in any other veg protein products? Identified other importers who rec'd tainted imports?

Acheson: Only in US wheat gluten and RCP. Corn gluten was in South Africa. Can we rule it out? No.

Baltimore Sun: Any other importers?

Acheson: Import alert only going several days. But so far only those two.

Japanese media outlet reporter: Asked for more info on import alerts. Are there bans?

(I missed the response.)

Reporter asked if labeling was food/not food.

Acheson: Labeled as wheat gluten, not textiles. Not aware it came into the US mislabled.

Michael Rogers: We only know how shipments were declared entering the US, not leaving China.

Steve Dale: Melamine found as far back as 2006 in pet food - is it possible that this has played a role in companion animal health for a very long time? Longer than pet food recall? I am very ignorant about international trade, but it seems if there is any doubt, why isn't there a ban on these products being imported in the US? Why don't we just stop it until we're certain?

Acheson: Our investigation of imported products involves testing and the other is tracing of where product was used. In terms of testing, some or the product used in 2007 and 2006 was positive for melamine and related compounds. Based on records, prior to point we got positives, where did that product go? It all went into pet food. So if some of the early 2006 samples were positive, we can say based on records, if they were positive, they went into pet foods. And maybe that DID make them sick, but it didn't make them sick in a way we noticed. It is possible it's been making pets sick for a long time, even though it didn't come to our attention.

Says why detention instead of a ban, is to use a filter so everything is examined and only let through when it's okay. Nothing is 100 percent foolproof.

Karen Roebuck: Did any of the contaminated feed go to animals other than chickens or swine, and how many farms are involved? Readers are concerned about the chicken they are using to make homemade pet diets - giving another contaminated product?

Acheson: That's alot of questions. Let me see if I can remember. Cattle. Thank you. Not aware of anything other than hogs and poulty. Numbers of farms, Dr. Petersen?

Petersen: 30 poultry in Indiana, 8 swine in six states. Static. 38 farms total.

Sundloff: No indication pets are more susceptible. We don't understand how this whole syndrome is affecting animals. We don't recommend that pet owners prepare their own pet foods. At least not over a long term. Pet foods are nutritionally balanced to meet all the nutritional needs of the pet. Just feeding chicken is not in the best interest of pets. The veterinary community in general is opposed to homemade diets unless you really know what you're doing, and most people, myself included would not be able to do that.

WaPo: If human food supply, case control study would have been done early on. Has anyone done that in veterinary world so we can get some sense of how much of a dose it takes to get this and how different this is from baseline of renal failure in cats and dogs?

Sundloff: In close contact with AVMA and AAVLD - folks who operate in the animal disease diagnostic laboraties. While there is no similar organization for veterinary medicine, in this case the correlation were so strong, we know what products were causing death and illness, it was a dramatic effect, no need for case control studies.

Some of the concentrations of melamine were very high (in pet food). A lot of people are trying to work on this issue, veterinary organizations, colleges of veterinary medicine, to understand relationship between melamine, cyanuric acid, and some of the other components that we've found in the wheat gluten and RPC. As things go on further we should have a better understanding.

Reporter: How can such a small amount do so much damage? What portion of the pet food is wheat gluten and RCP? Is FDA investigating other contaminants?

Acheson: We talked about a lot of numbers today, and your question illustrates the complexity of this event. The 0.2-8 percent is the melamine content of the wheat gluten. In a sample of wheat gluten was between 0.2-8 percent melamine. Contaminated wheat gluten was used to make the pet food. Those foods were fed to pets. Variable proportions - maybe 5-10 percent of the pet food is wheat gluten. That may be on high end, can get you the specific number later.

Reporter: That still seems like a small amount, are you looking if something else might have caused this?

Acheson: No evidence of anything else caused this. The one thing that had changed was the wheat gluten. Mel and mel compounds is all that has come up. We don't believe the mel alone is the cause of this, but the combination with related compounds. Lot of questions we dont' have answers to as to how that happened or how frequently, or precise concentration needed.

Bloomberg News: Asked about samples tested.

Acheson: "Too many numbers in one press conference."

Bloomberg: Is this a limited problem?

Acheson: To date, yes.

This will be the LAST QUESTION. Guess I won't be asking mine.

Elizabeth Weise, USA Today: Cross-contamination even in products that don't contain wheat gluten or RCP, can we rule that out in other foods than these pet foods?

Acheson: All contaminted wheat gluten and RCP has only gone into pet food. We are always on the lookout for cross-contamination. But none of this went into the human food supply that we're aware of, the question is moot in terms of human food.

EW: No plants that make both human and pet food?

Acheson: Not that we're aware of.

Briefing ends.

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Comments

[mike]

I just have plain old "refresh", no "refresh periodically".....

[E. Hamilton]

How bad is the Muzzik torture, this time?

[Donna]

how about "I Know I'll Never EAT this way again"

[mike]

Foreshadowing "this is our final teleconference"

[E. Hamilton]

So, pretty bad then, hang in there!

Some have survived even the dread "Macarthur Park", with minimal brain damage.

[Donna]

Does anyone know where I can access the list of corporations who own pet food companies? Thanks.

[Sharon]

I need some help here.



Cleo, my 17 yo kitty with thyroid problems, is at the vet now and it's iffy if she'll survive.



She's got 104.9 temp with a raging UTI. The Dr says there is considerable blood in her urine, it has a very strange smell but also, there is something in there that he can't identify.



This is the SECOND cat he has seen today with this.



Does anyone know what happens to these crystals that form in the kidneys from the melamine-tainted food? Does the cats system try to expel them?



God, I'm at a loss here and so afraid I won't be bringing her home alive again. But I've asked him to send the labs out to identify what that strange thing is that is showing up in her urine.



God I hope this isn't the start of another trend.



Can someone ask the vets at the PC about this - specifically, what are they seeing in recovering animals?

[Kim]

Sharon, you might want to refer your vet to this site, asap.

http://www.vin.com/Promo/MenuRecall.htm

[mike]

Sharon: are you member of any Yahoo pet groups, like here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/petvetcafe/?yguid=220027849

that you can post that to?....

[Steve]

Nice to see the FDA actually having to work for change.

[Sharon]

No, mike, I'm not. I applied for membership at a yahoo crf site but never got a responding e-mail.



Kim, he knows about all this and has contended that Cleo's issues are elderly ones that "might" have been exacerbated by the spoiled pet foods. Maui, my 16 yo cat was treated for poisoning with him 6 weeks ago.

[E. Hamilton]

Now Gina, the eyes watching will bust you for gambling! But the idea of FDA media events as a blood sport may catch on!

[Donna]

FDA responds "Good question, will investigate."



Are you kidding? Maybe we should prepare a list for them to investigate (proactively).

[Brandi]

Sharon try the feline-crf-info yahoogroup. The list owner is Helen who created and maintains Tanya's CRF site. www.felinecrf.org



Helen has always been a wonderful source of information.

[Lisa C]

One of the independent labs that's been testing pet food for people should start testing some common PEOPLE food with protein concentrate in it. I'm not sure that I trust the FDA's investigative skills at this point!

[Kim]

Do they not understand that some people eat chicken every single day? And that when we're not eating chicken, we're eating eggs? And that we're feeding our PETS chicken? grrrr

[Elaine]

I sure agree with Lisa's statement

[Ally]

Kim, I'll see that grrrr and raise ya one.

Dilution effect my patootie.

[E. Hamilton]

I am not sure ANYONE should trust the FDA’s investigative skills, but the boys can spin like a Sufi dancer, can't they?

[Gina Spadafori]

Sharon, our vets cannot recommend treatment for your kitty. It's just not something we can do without a vet-patient relationship. You're going to need to keep working with your own veterinarians for your pet's best care.



The VIN page referenced above does offer a lot of background info, for you and your veterinarian, both.

[Debra]

Sharon, the melamine crystals are present in urine as well as the urinary system itself; link to pictures was posted elsewhere on this site. The crystals are roughly circular and show a spoke-like pattern radiating out from the middle under a microscope, per description at that link.



Keep pushing that vet.

[spocko]

As Kim pointed out we only hear about the dilution effect and NOT the accumulation effect.



Also



"What tests have you run on the humans that have eaten the chickens that have eaten the "diluted" chicken tainted with Melamine, crynic acid and the other two chemicals?"



Will you be tracking the humans who ate this chicken to see if they show any symptoms?





I'm pissed at this, "We are sure it's fine, but we won't tell you who ate it and test them."



That is not science, that is guess work based on hope.



Why won't they tell us the names again of the chicken companies? Did they cut a deal with them to NOT reveal their names?

[spocko]

This dilution effect might be real, but they have no scientific testing on people who ate the poultry to PROVE it's okay. This is just guess work.

[Ally]

Comment by spocko — May 3, 2007 @ 1:45 pm

"Why won’t they tell us the names again of the chicken companies?"



Trying to avoid nation wide panic would be my guess.

They're in deep doo-doo no matter how you look at it.



Never mind the deep ca-ca they'll find themselves in if the human food chain has has been compromised. Which I find incredibly difficult to believe has not.

[mike]

Sharon:

I just posted that on two of my Yahoo pet groups, but they don't respond usually very quickly...gina can give you my e-addrsss, or she can give me yours, and if there's any responses i'll send them to you. but like gina said, most of those dvm's on the Yahoo groups also are pretty much the same way....

mike

[Kim]

8 percent??? Dilution effect my a**

[nikandboots]

Sharon, good luck to you. My 10 year old cat got sick from the tainted food 6 weeks ago and I had to put her to sleep. My 8 year old cat is so far fine as well as my 5 year old dog. Your story is exactly what I've been dreading for weeks since putting my first cat down. To have to go through all that again is my worst nightmare. Atleast now the country's vets seem to know more about it and how best to treat it (fluids & antibiotics). My poor kitty didn't have a chance. They didn't even know what was causing the kidney failure then.

[spocko]

Ally. As someone said, they are positioning this in such a way so that it poses "little risk to humans." can we have a second opinion? Can you please point us to the studies that this poses little risk?" No. Then it is all just conjecture on their part. Now it MIGHT be informed conjecture, but it is based on assumptions that not everyone may agree with.



I want a second opinion from someone who is NOT the FDA or the Pet Food person.

[Gina Spadafori]

It is interesting that they're willing to ASSUME the "dilution effect" makes pork and chicken safe, but the deaths of pets are ALLEGED until scientifically confirmed.

[Lin52]

Acheson, making "dilution factor" his version of "weapons of mass destruction". And we all know how accurate THAT was!

[Ally]

Gina - agreed.

Good point.

[Elaine]

Hogs ate the contaminated food--they tested hog pee and found melamine--People ate contaminated hogs---would make good sense to then test people pee, right?

[spocko]

Okay so the WSJ gets to ask multiple questions, why not Christie?

[Linda]

It's "Spin" - pure spin and indoctrination and lies and trying to keep the lid on when obviously it was blown weeks ago. Who believes thier lies anymore?



Not even the news media it appears.

[Gina Spadafori]

Because they're the WALL STREET JOURNAL, silly. There's always a caste system. :)

[Kim]

Spocko - we have it. one of the Drs working WITH the USDA says that long-term health effects are a concern.



http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_505650.html

[Kim]

From that last link...



As more contaminated human and pet food products are found daily, the biggest unknown remains the long-term health effects from eating food laced with industrial chemicals, doctors and researchers said Tuesday.



"That is one thing people are still concerned about -- long-term effects -- and we still don't know the answer to that," said Dr. Wilson Rumbeiha, a pathologist with Michigan State University's Center for Population and Animal Health. Rumbeiha is working with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration on the pet food contamination.

[Linda]

When the food rots on the shelves then maybe the FDA will take notice - until then, it's business as usual.

[Pat]

Since we are getting poetic and musical...



Who is old enough to remember "The Graduate" ?



Remember when Mr. Robinson gave Dustin Hoffman's character a stock tip?



"one word, 'plastics'."

[spocko]

I was reluctant to do this, but am I going to have to call all the chicken farms in Indiana?



They can ask the FDA all day, but they aren't going to tell you. Their message is, "It's fine."

Okay that is out there. So now the journalists need to get the names. I've already contacted Perdue and they said, "Not us!"

[Cynthia]

Is Acheson talking in circles and stonewalling? I'm already getting a bad feeling about this guy that he's not working for us either... stop paying him.

[Linda]

How about Tyson?

[Sharon]

Gina, I know. I was just wondering if anyone had seen this bizarre set of symptoms in cats that had been exposed. My vets being very proactive with her. I've asked him not to do anything extreme other than IV and antibiotics. If she's going to go, she needs to be home with me. The vet said he's gonna do his best to make sure that if it gets to that point, I'll be able to bring her home. First 24 hours is the key.



I know she's old, and I know she's sick too, but that doesn't mean that her life isn't just as important as a young kitty who was fed this garbage. Every time I think that I can't get angrier, that this nightmare will end, I read something like this and it blows me away:



"Michael Rogers: Clarify we’ve received over 17,000 complaints, around 50 percent alleging an animal death."



50 percent :(

[Lacy]

Sharron

I am so sorry about your kitty. I hope and pray she pulls through. What were you feeding your kitties that caused this?



Also, can anyone tell me what they have witnessed as signs of a UTI? Thanks!

[E. Hamilton]

Possible it made pets sick and we did not notice.



I say it is damned likely and the FDA would not know about this NOW if a lot of bloggers had not started screaming!



My blood pressure just "spikes" every single time the FDA does a media event.

[Sharon]

Thanks Lacy. Signs are lethargy, physical weakness, little or no urination (very hard to tell in a multi-cat household), sometimes increased or painful urination, fever, not eating...



I was feeding them Priority pouches and canned and Iams Regular chow. FDA told me everything I was feeding them was recalled :(

[Linda]

Can you believe it - now they want to make certain we do not make our own pet food. Whose side are they on anyway? As if we don't know.

[mountainkimmie]

Comment by Gina Spadafori — May 3, 2007 @ 1:53 pm



Bingo, Gina. Very interesting indeed.

[Brandi]

"It is possible it’s been making pets sick for a long time, even though it didn’t come to our attention."



I don't doubt it's been making pets sick for a long time. Personally it would explain why so many otherwise young, healthy pets have kidney failure.



Gee, wouldn't that go against their "dilution effect" making human food safe??



They're a bunch of idiots!

[Sharon]

spocko, I posted an article yesterday about a West Virginia chicken company that also said "not Us!" so you can strike them off the list too. If I can just remember their name...