I liveblogged the 5/1 FDA press conference on the pet food recall over on PetConnection.com. I am reproducing it here, because a comment to it there is crashing IE6, and we'll probably have to kill the post to fix it.
Announced as being present were:
Captain David Elder, USPHS
Director, Office of Enforcement
Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
David Acheson, MD
Chief Medical Officer
Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, FDA
Kenneth Petersen, DVM, MPH
Assistant Administrator for Field Operations
Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA
Also present were Dr. Stephen Sundloff of the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine, who fielded a few questions, and Walter Batts handling some international questions.
As usual: unless something is in direct quotes, it’s a paraphrase, and there will be typos. I did this live.
4:10 PM begins.
Dr. David Atchison, new Asst. Commissioner for Food Protection for the FDA.
DA: Going over Saturday press release on hogs, yesterday’s on poultry.
Hogs: We still have no evidence of harms to humans. Believe likelihood of illness is extremely low. No evidence of harm to swine.
Dilution effect - hog feed is only made up of a small amt of contaminated pet food. Melamine is excreted in hog urine, not known to bioaccumulate in the animal. Even if it were in the muscle tissue, pork is not consumed as a large part of the diet, unlike pets who eat a steady diet of one thing.
FDA and USDA are working together to develop new assays to measure tissue (meat) for melamine and melamine-related compounds. They DO know these levels will be small.
That data will help them make risk assessments.
Now, poultry. (After the jump)
Contaminated wheat gluten used as a portion of chicken feed in some
farms in Indiana. (The hogs were rice protein concentrate.) Same thing
- dilution effect. Estimate 5 percent. Investigators have found a
number of broiler and breeder farms in Indiana who rec’d the
contaminated feed. The meat from the broilers has been consumed.
Breeders who are still there are on voluntary hold.
They do not believe there is a threat of human illness from consuming poultry who were fed very small amounts of contaminated pet food. Poultry is a small part of most people’s diets. Situation similar to hogs.
This is an ongoing investigation. New data will come to light.
Dr. Kenneth Peterson, USDA:
Not initiating recall because poultry and pork are such a small part of most people’s diets. Sense is investigation will lead to additional farms where contaminated feed was fed to animals or poultry.
Six states involved with swine investigation, listed them. Indiana is “primary state of interest” for poultry.
They opened to questions. That was all they had.
Walter Batts interrrupted, with “International Report,” said there are two and about to become three, FDA investigators on the ground in China. A senior policy advisor has met with the Chinese goverment - AQFIQ (?) - got agreement for full cooperation with investigation. Big holiday in China this week. Number of officials who are on holiday. Have at least one official is working this week to review what they have learned so far and plan cooperative effort, including visits to appropriate sites.
CNN: How many people consumed chicken products - she thinks many would disagree that “not many” eat pork and chicken. Asks for clarification on what Chinese are using melamine for.
Atchison: Of course a lot of people eat pork and poultry. Contrast is with a pet, who will frequently consume the same sort of food all the time. If the contaminated product is 100 percent of pet food, which is different for a human, for whom the meat is just one thing on the plate. It’s not an exclusive nutrient.
CNN: But how many people have consumed the chicken?
Response: We haven’t found any evidence consumption is unsafe. Farms of interest are being looked at. Feed was several months ago. Short lifespan of chickens. Already in food chain. Need to investigate. Given consumption factors, its’ not a feature of their current investigation, to find out how many people ate the chicken.
Repeated about not eating a lot of chicken. Don’t see health issues, so how many people ate the chicken or pork is not the feature of their investigation today.
Marketwatch: How many chickens are being held by the breeder farms, and how many broiler chickens were sent out and processed?
Response: Breeders, around 100,000 waiting to be killed.
Marketwatch: Total market?
Response: Total fowl slaughtered is several million, normally. (This is apparently wrong - see below.)
Marketwatch: Pressed on number.
Response: 2.5 to 3 million out of 9 billion. (back and forth about numbers.)
Abigail Goldman: Asked how Dr. Atchison’s new position will help with safety of human or pet food chains.
Atchison: Wants not to talk about his position, but about the melamine situation. Wants to develop strategic trans-agency approach. Food, feed, at all levels. Field and reseach. Goal is to develop strategic way of thinking, moving to the future. Both domestic and import front, develop a strategic vision. Coordinate situations such as “this,” where we have a significant health hazard that affects different areas of the agency.
Washington Post: Is investigation that there may be chickens still alive that may have been fed this feed, and if so, what can you tell us how many may be in play. If some are alive, are you not required by law to order them held or depopulated since they must be deemed adulterated?
Dr. Peterson: 2.5 - 3million were fed back in February. Typical lifespan is around 42, 43 days. Already slaughtered and distributed.
WashPo: Pressed, how do you know?
Dr. P: We went to the pet food manufacturers and to date, the chicken feed mill is the only one that’s been identified.
If there were swine on farms, and poultry, known to have been fed contaminated feed, then depopulation. Poultry still alive, approx 100K.
Elizabeth Weise, USA Today: Asked about the import hold and why it was widened.
Response: Restated what the alert was. Listed products. Sounds like he’s reading the alert. No other answer.
Question: MO poultry feed mill purchased contaminated feed?
Bill Smith, office of enforcement evaluation: Still doing fact finding. Don’t know.
Question: How long will that take? First brought out last Thursday.
Smith: Working closely with FDA. Don’t want to guess at a timeframe. “As soon as we know something, we’ll make that known to everybody.”
Question: Any other states you’re looking at?
Smith: Ongoing investigation.
David Atchison: We’re trying to be careful and not go out with information we haven’t confirmed. Broad, ongoing, complex multi-pronged investigation. Because of nature of investigation, we don’t want to go out with speculation.
ABC News: Are there any food products consumers should be concerned about?
Batts, FDA: Answered about the known contaminated rice protein concentrate and wheat gluten, said none of that was used in human food production.
Said there is a parallel preventive strategy, surveillance program. Getting samples and testing various protein concentrates. Investigation is just getting under way. It’s unpredictable how it will go. Right now there is no indication any of this contamination ended up directly in human food.
Wall Street Journal: More specific examples of what FDA plans on doing differently in the future? How much will government spend depopulating animals and compensating farmers?
Atchison: Focused on the investigation. Already learning lessons. We generally base resources where higher risks are. Usually works. We had food safety issues recently linked to products we did not consider high risk.
WSJ: How are you rethinking it?
Atchison: Not yet.
Dr. Peterson: Financial aspects: Sect 32 funds. Designed to restore purchasing power of farmers. Head of swine is around 6000. Doesn’t have exact figures.
David Goldstein: Who were the farms supplying poultry to?
David Atchison: Not able to do that. Ongoing active investigation.
Dow Jones: How long has this been going on in China? Seems to be well known, common knowledge over there.
David Atchison: The truthful answer to your question is that we don’t know.” Maybe it just surfaced because ratio of melamine was higher and made pets sick and forced an examination of the whole system. “I too have read reports this is not something that started recently.” Hopefully investigation in China will give some answers to that.
Chicago Tribune: You say it’s too late to do a recall, but why not name the companies and let the consumers decide?
Dr. Peterson: It’s more than just the shelf life of poultry or swine. As Dr. Atchison suggested, if you look at the potential exposure, the risk is very low for the factors he mentioned. The wheat gluten and rice gluten were just small components of the pet food. The way swine and poultry were raised, defined rations. Pet food byproducts are a small part of the feed. If anything fed for a brief period of time. Look at frequency of people consuming pork or chicken. All those things together, along with no evidence of harm to people eating pork and chicken. We made a decision not to recall.
Baltimore Sun: Do you have any better idea whether it was the melamine that caused the deaths of cats and dogs, and how?
David Atchison: Absence of toxicity data on melamine. Very, very high levels can lead to illness in rats. Bladder stones, cancer. That’s way higher than any of the levels we’ve seen ingested by animals. As this has unfolded, what we’re seeing here is there’s probably a combination effect of melamine and melamine-related compounds. That’s my view of it. Refers to Dr. Sundloff.
Dr. Sundloff: Appears to be a reaction between melamine and other compounds.
Question, missed who: How many pet food products have been recalled, what percentage of total market? Also, confirm the FDA has rec’d unconfirmed reports of 1950 cat deaths and 2200 dog deaths?
Response, not sure by who?: The Agency has received as many as 17,000 calls alleging some association of animal illness or death. Of those, around 8000 or so have been entered into our data system. Roughly 50 percent allege animal death. As part of a longterm project, the agency will evaluate those.
Dr. Sundloff: When you take package sizes, dates, etc, something around 5500 products recalled. But they represent around 150 brands. Certain dates were not subjected to recall. “That’s where you get all of these large numbers.”
Reports of deaths are just that, people who called in and reported a death. We have not confirmed if those were truly related to the pet food. That’s something that’s going to take some time.
New York Times: How many domestic plants are you visiting in search of melamine and related compounds? Asking for emergency resources?
Atchison: Going to places we need to go to, based on information we get. Intention to get out to as many firms as we can.
Resources are being devoted to the current crisis.
NYT: How many plants do you believe rec’d contaminated protein concentrates of vegetable origin from China?
Atchison: Don’t know.
NYT: Pressed on number.
Atchison: Could well be in the hundreds.
Steve Dale: How is it that a baby eating chicken baby food for a week, could not at all be affected if this can kill a 160 pound Great Dane? Also, “Safe Food Act,” how does FDA feel about that?
Response: Do not comment on legislation.
Atchison added: Under infant scenario. But I want to emphasize the dilution factors here are enormous. We have a raw ingredient, say wheat gluten - only some percentage has melamine related compounds. Manufactures a pet food. Only a small amount is used to make hog of chicken food.
Melamine is excreted in hog urine. No bioaccumulation. So animals have low levels.
The amount of chicken or pork, even by a baby, is small. Babies dont’ usually live exclusively on chicken or pork. When you multiply all those factors in, the likelihood of illness even to infants is extremely small. It really is. It’s not the same as feeding a cat or dog.
Salt Lake Tribune: How many swine have gone into the human food supply, and are you continuing your investigation of the Utah plant?
USDA: Swine number, still working with a total exposure number from farms we confirmed got contaminated feed, 6000. Most are still on the farm today.
Isn’t sure how many have gone to market. Early indications well over 5500, 5600 are still on the farms.
Yes, we’re still involved with the Utah establishment.
Salt Lake Tribune: Where is the feed from the Utah plant going?
USDA: Farms in Utah that we’re looking at. Go back to what Dr. Atchison said, small number that made its way to marketplace. Dilution factor. No evidence of any kind to suggest concern.
Debbye Turner, CBS News: Have there been any meetings or preliminary indications as to how the Chinese will cooperate? Are they still claiming no melamine shipped to US?
Walter Batts: Restated about meeting.
Karen Roebuck: In the recent import alert, there were 750 samples of wheat gluten tested, 330 positive for melamine. Are those all pet food samples? Has any human sample tested positive? And why do you have to slaughter the pigs, if they’re safe enough that you’re not recalling the ones that were already slaughtered?
Response: Not going to get into the numbers. Is from the alert at the time, this is an ongoing investigation. The import alert is a proactive opportunity by the agency. All positive samples are associated with two primary sources in China.
Roebuck: But human or just pets?
Response: No evidence went to human food.
(Christie’s note: The section I just typed needs a better look - I want to see the transcript for this.)
Seattle tv station reporter, missed name and affiliation: Corn gluten is on detention list. Is there melamine in corn gluten, and what is the barnyard application?
Atchison: In US, did not find contaminated corn gluten. They did in South Africa, that’s why we’re looking more broadly.
Dr. Sundloff: Corn gluten is used like any other vegetable protein to add protein to animal feed. Cattle, pigs, chicken, turkeys, pets.
Concluded. I was not in the queue, and didn’t ask a question.
Oh wow. I watched the senate hearing on this a couple of weeks ago and it was just scary the lack of oversight.
It's so sad how everything today is down to the spin. Didn't he ever hear that most families eat 5 different meals? If that.
Posted by: Carrie K | 03 May 2007 at 10:19 PM