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« Pet food recall: Friday news and open thread | Main | Your pets don't count »

29 April 2007

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Lynn

SLEUTHS!



Too often several of us are [unbeknownst to the other] researching the same information, or information others found weeks ago. Typical case in point: Bernie and NPN’s. Newcomers have no way of knowing what’s been covered in the past. There is no way to easily resurrect old blogs and query them. [Or is there and I just don’t know about it?] Time spent going over and over the same information could be better spent researching new grounds.



I’ve suggested in the past:

1. that we need an archive of specific topics

2. that we should break down into “topic teams” to put the archive together [and add new information when it appears]



My Concept:



TOPIC TEAMS: In the absence of a forum, individual “Topic Teams” should serve. Any interested blog member may select a topic and join it. No one needs to be a biochemist in order to join the biochem Topic Team, for example. No member is limited to just one topic. Not all blog members need to join a Topic Team at all. Topic Teams “own” the archived information related to that topic. They will insure that all related information is, orderly, referenced, and centralized in such a way so that others may have access to the information. In this manner, we won’t have to go over the same material that’s already been outed.



ADMINISTRATOR: There should be an overall administrator who connects a person wanting to be part of a topic team to the others in the group, including exchange of email addresses. From that point the members of each topic team are charged with pulling together all resources on that topic, referencing their research, writing it up in an organized fashion, and archiving the topic for use by others [read-only].



Here are some topics that I think can use teams:



~ FDA

~ Food Brokers [e.g., ChemNutra, Wilbur-Ellis]

~ Pet Food Recall Lists [Anomalies, issues]

~ Pet Food Manufacturers [Need a database here]

~ Patents

~ Timelines

~ Hearings

~ Biochemistry [Melamine, Urea, NPN’s…]

~ Labs, Forensics

~ Chinese BioChemists: Background

~ News Media

~ Home Made Foods: Recipes

~ Many Other topics



Anyone else see the usefulness of teaming partners?



Have I made you cringe? [My heart’s in the right place!]

Lynn

Some pharmaceuticals used cyanuric acid in their antibiotics and fungicides. Knowing that the scientists at Univ of Guelph discovered that malamine and cyanuric acid, combined with other chemicals normally found in a dog or cat’s body, could effect a toxic reaction, I began to wonder if any of the pets that died of tainted food were also on antibiotics or fungicides before their deaths.



To date I’ve had only a few responses. Please help me conduct this poll which I have added to Itchmo’s website: http://64.79.216.38/~itchmo/forums/index.php?topic=183.msg1254#msg1254



I would really appreciate your adding your information.

Lynn

You would think by now I would not cringe whenever I hear or read that only 16 [or 18 on a “good” day] deaths have occurred. How can those disgustingly small numbers possibly NOT affect any of us?



On a few occasions I suggested that Gina send me a copy of the database that contains the death and illness information for the deceased and sick pets. I want to remove the sensitive ownership info, clean up the file, remove redundancies, and create a professional document, complete with stats. Once completed, it should be forwarded to targeted news media at all major broadcast networks in major cities, to known reporters, AP, etc.



My feeling is that once they see that we’re not pulling numbers out of the air, they might actually begin thinking Pet Connection’s numbers are indeed credible.



I believe we should assemble a task team to personally contact specific reporters, station managers, and particularly AP, and present them with the database.



I really believe the absence of news media attention is hurting us terribly. [I am not referring to television show hosts as they are often mandated to not become involved with any issue to which a station advertiser/sponsor might object.]



Do you think this is worth a shot?

leek

Why not also print a scatter map of the pet deaths, based on zip code?



Date of death, age of pet at death, and pet foods consumed would also be useful, and more provocative.



4500 vs. 16 isn't very useful, is it?

nancy

There is already frappr.com map located on

The Pets Need A Voice To site. They are the folks who oganizeed the national march yesterday.

Go there to add your pet.-

There area bout 50 pets n there now.

nancy

www.pnv2.com

scroll down....

CathyA

Lynn, Itchmo already has forums set up, and is a more appropriate place for breaking things down in topics. I don't know why an administrator is needed. Why not just start appropriate topics over there?

Maudigan

Nurto site is an error page, through several different routes, it's gone. Menu is still there, but the Nurto isn't. What happened to it?

Gracie

FDA press release is not even correct for dates...



In the Wilber-Ellis recall,

http://tinyurl.com/2wvvpj

"Wilbur-Ellis began importing rice protein concentrate from Binzhou Futian Biology Technology in JULY 2006." Caps for emphasis-mine



In the above blogged media release they say,

"Although the company began importing product from China in AUGUST 2006" Caps again, mine for emphasis.



That really bloody well stinks.

Marilyn

E. Hamilton has been asking for volunteers to do something similar. So, I set up a forum over at itchmo last night called Medical Costs for Treating Affected Pets. The information will be used to demonstrate the economic impact on all of us. I'm asking that people be as specific as possible. So, gather up your vet bills and come on over. I would like actual numbers if at all possible. However, I do understand that many people have probably not saved their records, so I will be taking estimates also. But I will be keeps actuals and estimates separately. In order to be credible we need a lot of respondents, so people, please respond. I know that this situation has caused economic hardships...this is your chance to speak out and demonstrate it.

Marilyn

I want to also add to my previous post about Medical Costs for Treating Affected Pets...



Even if the expenses have not been an economic hardship for you, please post. I did not mean to imply that I'm only looking for hardship cases. I'm looking for all medical expenses associated with the contaminated pet food. That would also include people who took their pets in for testing even if they weren't sure they had eaten any of the food. Acting on suspicions and fear count, too.

Steve

Comment by Lynn — April 29, 2007 @ 1:15 am



-Suspicious activities

-Lies, Spin, Coverups



Don't forget that!



"Just the facts"



;-)

Mary Ann

Maudigan,hi Did u mean Nutro, www.nutroproducts.com or Natura which is,Innova and California Natural that site is www.naturapet.com. Last nite someone told me he google is NUTRO DRY FOOD SAFE AND There was this site,hub page, and so many pets died from Nutro dry food or are very sick from it.I think what ever happen to the Pet Food it started this Summer,this is when i notice my dogs started to drink so much more water and the bag of food had a FUNKY Smell to it. they were on Nutro after i took them off of it.they are so much better. I put them on California Natural Lamb and Rice they love it. good luck

Bonni

what ever happened with the rat poison. those first folks found it in a sample, then FDA said it was not in anything they tested and it went away. But are they still testing anything for it?

Steve

Some of the dialogue on the Internet surely tests the limits of conventional discourse. Speech on the Internet can be unfiltered, unpolished, and unconventional, even emotionally charged, sexually explicit, and vulgar -- in a word, 'indecent' in many communities. But we should expect such speech to occur in a medium in which citizens from all walks of life have a voice.



quoting public documents offers immunity in libel suits.

Mary Ann

Maudigan, you need to type the address in, i try to click onto it from my last post did not work. www.naturapet.com

Mary Ann

Maudigan ,this is strange now it works from last comment. i need a pot of coffee

Pat

Steve, I'm not getting what you're trying to say?

Maudigan

Thanks for the help Mary Ann. I am still getting an error page up, from everywhere I have tried to get there, directly or indirectly. Sorry we can not find this page, try......several more avenues, no luck. And my luck already ran out Mary Ann, April 9, 2007, because they still haven't recalled the dog food that took my hero dog. I am freaked that it is still out there on the market and that other hero dogs might be eating it.

Bonni

nutro does not come up for me either. maybe a hub is down somewhere and that would explain why some can get and some not

Mary Ann

my comment where i gave nutro web address click it and i got it .I'm So Sorry about the loss of your pet. What Food was Your Dog On?

Steve

Comment by Pat — April 29, 2007 @ 6:34 am



Oh, I'm referring the facts. Just the facts.



Pet Food Industry is in a bad jam. If not a complete meltdown.



We'll leave it at that.



I didn't create the situation they are in.



THEY DID.

Maudigan

Thank you again Mary Ann. Still won't let me in to the Nutro site, Menu yes, but nothing past there. He was on Nurto Natural Choice Lamb and Rice Formula, dry food, well the little over three pounds of it he ate out of a new bag. btw, love your vet cost thing over at Itchmo, I will be doing that monday, busy today. I'm getting told to get off line right now. Beating the heat, 90's today here.

Steve

People a lot of Pet Food Brands are tweaking and redoing their websites.



For a variety of reasons.

Steve

Or scrubbing their websites.

Mary Ann

Steve,can You get Nutro? this is strange we aren't having trouble,and there are 5 Pc's and each one got it.

Steve

Comment by Mary Ann — April 29, 2007 @ 7:23 am



No, figure they are making major changes in what they claim about their products or sumptin'.

Pat

Oh. Okay. That makes more sense now.

petlover

Lynn, perhaps there should be a topic for "Websites 'Before' and 'After'" the recent changes people have been saving.

Steve

Comment by Pat — April 29, 2007 @ 7:25 am



Need to keep in mind these executives are struggling to pay for that fifth mortgage in Belize or scraping by to purchase that second private jet right now.

Ally

E. Hamilton's already got something similar to Lynn's idea going over at Itchmo's forums. I saw her plans for it in Itchmo's comments last night. I think Marilyn took on the first topic - concerning costs to date for pets that became ill and/or died.



E. Hamilton also mentioned last she would be getting up the other topics for discussion/article collecting today. Itchmo's site is great, as is this one. But I'd sure like to see a forum here one day, too.



Please don't hurt me Gina. Had to try asking one more time.....*ducks*....

Peggy

At Nutro it says the server is down. The cached copies still work, just no pics. You'll have to wait while it figures out that it can't get to the pics, though.

Steve

Comment by Ally — April 29, 2007 @ 7:32 am



Congress enacted Section 230 for two reasons -- to "promote the free exchange of information and ideas over the Internet," and to "encourage service providers to self-regulate the dissemination of offensive material over their services."



I don't see your post as offensive.

shelly

Steve - get any dirt this morning??

Steve

Comment by shelly — April 29, 2007 @ 7:45 am



No not yet. Still trying to figure out what to do with the pile we already have thats been accumulating for 42 days.

shelly

Were you able to save all we found?

Kat

Diversion: Here's a cute 8) doggie artist:



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/12/sunday/main2677019.shtml



This was on CBS Sunday Morning last week.

shelly

http://tinyurl.com/2yqtzw



SUMMARY OF LAWS AND REGULATIONS ENFORCED BY CBP re: Agriculture



You can open this as a .doc also which I found easier to get around on. Link is HTML

Gina Spadafori

We've talked about putting a forum on the Pet Connection site, but ... I have zero interest in managing one. I used to be head of the Pet Care Forum on AOL, and I hated managing the boards.



We all have to go with our strengths, and mine is I'd rather write about pets then run a pet forum.



There are lots of places to discuss pets, including the PetHobbyist.com communities, which Christie oversees. (That's where a lot of the AOL people went after AOL took the PCF in house.)



I like blogging. I don't like managing forums. So ... sorry, but we won't be adding forums here.

Kat

Lynn/E.Hamilton, et al -



I keep thinking about the research on antibiotics/antifungals -- if you "prove" the majority of animals died from a combined reaction -- won't that dilute the contaminated food theory? Thus, leaving the petitioners in the class action law suits less credible?



Granted, a food additive should not react with a medication, but it happens often. That result then reflects back to the dispensary, doctor & patient (parent).



In this case, the food additive was not disclosed to even consider an outcome. Just wanted to state an idea on this...

elliott

Sorry if this is not the correct thread to post - I'm barely computer savvy, let alone wise to sites such as this. Thank you for all of the information provided here!

I am still confused with the labeling "rules". Recently we purchased dry Natural Balance cat and dog. We did so as their web site listed products that appeared acceptable. No menodione (artificial vit K) was listed on the website. We checked the package labels and one listed Menodione, the other listed some sort of Vit K formulation. We spoke with NB 3 times. Once with their sales rep - Jenny. Each time we were told to trust their website and not the packaging and that Menodione was no longer used by them. Each time they said we must have old packaging and asked for the expiration date. The expiration dates were May and June 2008. They stated both times that there was a six month timeline they were allowed to change labelling.

Ally

Gina - no problem. I had to give it another try since I've come to greatly enjoy many of the peops who haunt this site. I'll stop stalking you now. ;-)



I'll check out Christie's site, PetHobbyist.com. Man, she really IS all over the place. Like you mentioned earlier, it's a challenge following her to all the places she regularly posts, lol. Just last night I noticed she's also on the yahoo K9 nutrition group I was just approved to join. So many sources of info........so little time!

Kat

Gina ~



Is it possible to get at least a Google Search Engine? There is so much info on this blog & it is virtually impossible to find a post.



There have been times when I just wanted to pull info from something, I've already posted, but cannot find it. I'm sure others have that problem too.



It's easy to add on site. Easy to get, easy to install. Request, copy, paste, upload — presto!



..." http://tinyurl.com/2f7p4n



Comment by Kat — April 28, 2007 @ 12:39 pm "

Kat

LOOKY WHAT I FOUND --



Sec. 146a. Jurisdiction of suits by or against China Trade Act

corporation



The Federal district courts shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of all suits to which a China Trade Act corporation, or a stockholder, director, or officer thereof in his capacity as such, is a party. Suit against the corporation may be brought in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia or in the Federal district court for any district in which the corporation has an agent and is engaged in doing business.



http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title15/chapter4_.html

Kat

Since Sally Q. Miller has 12 yrs experience in the China Trade -- is she an agent?

Kat

never mind... I think that they mean an "Agent of Record"

Deanna

"we are not aware of any human illness that has occurred from exposure to melamine or its by-products."



They forgot to add the word 'yet' at the end of the sentence.



I have several melamine dishes from when my twin were small. Would I take one, grind it down to powder and sprinkle a little on my food? Heck no! Any human consumption of plastic is unacceptable.

Deanna

Oh yes, that goes for our pets, also!

ann

The hypothesis that the melamine reacted with antibiotics or antifungals that pets were taking is interesting. However, pets fed food in Menu's tests died, and I would think it unlikely that they were also giving them additional meds.

shelly

http://www.ita.doc.gov/ooms/ChinaTradeActRCS.pdf



The China Trade Act



(I just posted this but in the wrong place-meant to put it here)

ann

Also, we know that cyanuric acid is a byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=2B10D1F6-E7F2-99DF-34DAAAC1622FE3CE&chanID=sa007

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