The U.S. House of Representatives' Committee on Energy and Commerce's Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations is holding a hearing on "Diminished Capacity: Can the FDA Assure the Safety and Security of the Nation's Food Supply?" You can watch a video webcast
here (Windows Media Player required.)
Witnesses will include Paul K. Henderson, CEO, Menu Foods and Stephen S. Miller, CEO, ChemNutra, Inc.The full witness list is
here (PDF).
I'm listening in and will report as it goes along, and will liveblog anything specific to the pet food recall. Right now, they're just doing an introduction, and are discussing the contaminated pet food as well as other food safety issues, including the contamination of spinach and peanut butter with e. coli.
The entire live-blogging session is on the next page.
Mr. Waxman (D-CA): Many have tried to change things on food safety issues, and couldn't even get a hearing. Sometimes minor changes are made after an incident, but then the mood for change disappears. "FDA system for overseeing the safety of our food is all but broken." "We inspect only a tiny fraction of the food we import." Warns our food supply is susceptible to attack.
"We need to do more than tweak the system... we need to examine the system as a whole."
Three problems with FDA: Inadequte resources, standards, and enforcement.
A 24 percent budget cut in food safety - I think he said over $300 milllion dollar cut?
FDA inspected the ConAgra peanut butter plant DURING the e coli contamination.
FDA must set clear standards for soil contamination, unclean water, and worker sanitation, including or imported produce.
"This voluntary approach does not work."
"FDA has the authority to do this now. I hope they will act."
"FDA can and must do better."
Recalls are chipping away at the confidence of consumers - which hurts industry.
Mr. Green (Texas, not sure of party):
The GAO dubbed the country's food supply as "high risk." He doesn't think the average American believes that, but something needs to be done.
Says there will be future hearings regarding the FDA, which has too little authority, too few resources, and too much to do. FDA action is often too late. This is inexcusable. Wants to see an expansion of FDA authority.
Common denominator of peanut butter, spinach, and pet food problems is lack of appropriate testing.
Mr. Barton of Texas:
We began inspecting FDA last October. Some records of that investigation will be helpful in this one.
This is just a preliminary hearing. We only have partial information at this time and are not in as good a position as he would like to be.
Given such limitations, and to be fair, let's not rush conclusions based on this hearing by itself.
However, he does say the reluctance of the Chinese government to allow investigation related to the pet food recall concerns him. FDA has traced the problem to melamine found in wheat gluten, rice protein concentrate. FDA is also investigating contamation in hogs "possibly bound for the human market." (Note: No "possibly" about it.)
China only yesterday agreed to let FDA in. He says this is totally unacceptable. American consumers have the right to know they are safe.
Says there is a long history of contamination in China. Cited 1998 investigation - 155 US citizens sickened by a Chinese antibiotic. Counterfeit animal drugs. Numerous discrepancies.
Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-IL):
Not just food safety, but national security.
Need to follow recommendation of GAO and consolidate food safety programs.
Had called on hearing on this issue before, glad it's finally happening.
"We also have to start holding food, including pet food, conglomerates accountable now."
Employees are instructed to hide product codes and not give information to investigators. This keeps us in the dark about what they're doing to the food "that makes it to our kitchen table." Says "corporate shenanigans" will be revealed at this hearing.
Talks about 1969-70 when a "group of young mothers" got manufacturers and retailers to freshness-date foods, which is not ubiquitous.
Says food product inspection is not a priority for FDA, even though import of ingredients has increased by 73 percent. "Frighteningly easy way" for terrorists to attack US food supply.
Mr. Burgess, TX:
"America has the safest, least expensive, most abundant food supply in the world." He never used to wonder if it would be safe to eat. The security of the food supply was never in question in his mind. Recent outbreaks have caught the country's attention.
Says melamine contamation "is not only wrong, it's criminal." Says Hurricane Katrina showed us Americans consider their pets as members of the family, and putting them at risk is unacceptable. Is very glad the committee included pet food recall in the hearing. Says this hearing is only the beginning. Welcomes companies here to tell "their side of the story."
Says nothing is 100 percent safe, but looks forward to hearing what role the companies have in this situation. Innocent people and animals should not have to die due to a mistake OR to criminal behavior. This must not happen again.
Mr. Dingle, MI:
"Inadequacies" of the FDA. Every American has reason to worry.
Not just foods and cosmetics, but also drugs. Reminds that the wheat gluten ordered was of "the highest grade," and these types of human ingredients, proteins, can end up in human food.
Were contaminated deliberately.
Came from our trading partners in China.
Was for greed, not terrorism, but it could have been the other way around.
Melamine fraudulently elevates protein levels in gluten and increases the money they can get. Profiteers have drawn a roadmap through holes in our regulatory system.
Up to yesterday, China would not let inspectors into the contaminated wheat gluten factories. The response of this administration was to only stop imports from ONE COMPANY. "Chinese wheat gluten continues to pour into this country." Gambling with American health so as not to disturb trading profits of the Chinese. The government response has been a "national scandal."
Will be more hearings, calling FDA to account for their imperfect stewardship of the public health, in two weeks. See what resources they need to carry out their important mission.
FDA tracing too many imports with too few resources for too many years. Good people in the field report how disillusioned they have become with management of FDA. Some resign. Some are driven out. Closure of FDA port facilities threaten food and health products supply.
FDA has some serious accounting to do. Playing with lives of Americans.
Ms. Blackburn, TN:
Food safety. National security. Invokes 9/11 and national sense of vulnerability, particularly of food and water supplies. Also food and agricultural infrastructure is at risk.
Americans are consuming increasing amounts of imported food and drink. FDA only has enough inspectors to check about 1 percent of imported food shipments. "So, we do have to realize this means we have an increased vulnerability."
Is this size? Lack of resources? Faulty priorities?
Is the FDA capable of restructuring to address these concerns, or are they turning a deaf ear and blind eye?
What is the expected level of corporate, beauracratic, and personal responsibility?
We must seek greater accountability. We must expect that all imports are going to meet our US safety standards. They are rigorous, and we intend for them to be met. Our food supply is generally considered safe, but there are vulnerabilities.
Jay Inslee, WA:
Meat industry not involved because of earlier efforts related to previous outbreaks. Need to apply those standards to other parts of the industry.
Notes four things:
Need BINDING standards. "Voluntary guidance is clearly a recipe for failure, injury, and even death." Says FDA use of the word "should" means we're not requiring food safety.
Hazard point identification programs must be established, as has been done in meat industry.
We need to treat e. coli and salmonella as ADULTERANTS. It is only common sense, he says.
Fourth, MUST HAVE MANDATORY RECALL AUTHORITY. That we don't have a mechanism in that regard beggars belief.
Industry itself has a stake in the ability to stop loss of confidence in its products.
Mr. Murphy, PA:
Missed this, sorry.
First panel introduced. The Armstrong family of Indiana. Telling story of daughter Isabella, who was made sick from contaminated spinach. She will need a kidney transplant.
Ms. Terri Marshall of LA:
Her mother-in-law ate contaminated peanut butter (salmonella). Life before Peter Pan peanut butter:
85 year old mother in law moved in in 2006. Could make her bed, make her own meals, read papers and magazines, went to beauty shop, dress herself. Liked to walk in yard, go out to meals, eat at table with dinner, and even help around the house. Kept in touch with friends and family. Kept a jar of Peter Pan peanut better on her nightstand, as a supplemental way to increase her nutrition. Would eat a spoonful or two every day. The very food she thought would improve her health ended up ravaging her body.
January of 2007, became ill and put in hospital. Last time she was at home.
Heard news of Peter Pan recall in mid-Februrary. Went to nursing home to check her peanut butter. Yes, the numbers did match the recall. Had been eating contaminated peanut butter in the hospital and nursing home.
Next week a rep of Dept of Health sent lab report... positive for salmonella. She was on a vicious cycle of salmonella poisoning.
She has lost her life but hasn't died. She has been in hospital or nursing home. Cannot walk, get out of bed, read papers or magazines, talk on the telephone, or drive in a car. She gets nutrition in a feeding tube. Can't even drink water. She is back in nursing home from hospital. Cannot even eat.
"We will forever be changed" in how they purchase and prepare food. She will never eat peanut butter again.
Mr. Gary Pruden and Sean Pruden from PA:
My son Sean is 11 and he contracted e. coli from eating at a Taco Bell in PA before Thanksgiving. As a parent, you don't know what's going on. We often want our kids to eat their vegetables. The other kids wouldn't eat them that time. Sean did, and he was infected.
The family doctor, who they visited twice, didn't recognize the problem, didn't get the diagnosis. Took to ER after they heard news reports of outbreak at Taco Bell. Rushed to medical center in Hershey by ambulance.
There is no treatment, you wait it out. Dialysis, blood transfusions. Fortunately Sean did not have to have dialysis, but was in a very bad state for 4-5 days. Did not know what outcome would be. Fortunately did recover, but they aren't certain of longterm effects.
Exhausting to family. Time away from business. Sense of guilt.
Public oversight. "A key element of successful commerce and trade is trust." Food should be edible and safe. Without this trust, commerce can't work. Oversight is required.
Fortunate Sean has recovered. This testimony must compel better oversight.
Opening to questions.
Packaging labeled "ready to eat," does it give impression it's been tested?
Parents responded that packaging said "triple-washed." Now they know it means nothing.
What should we as policy makers be doing?
Needed is consistent oversight. Outbreaks occur, lots of press, people up in arms, then it drops. Six months later it will happen again. Need more consistent oversight, more coordination between departments, and at state and county level too.
Ms. Marshall said the January 3 lab report said "salmonella." They never heard the word salmonella at all until Feb 23 when health department called and asked if she was better. Asked if anyone else in family was sick. That's when they told her it was salmonella - 9-10 days after recall, first time they heard that word. If they'd heard salmonella the first week in January they could identified the peanut butter immediately, because no one in the family ate it. They could have stopped her from eating the peanut butter while she was in the hospital. But they didn't get the information. Nothing was triggered to say this is a problem, and figure out what was contaminated. They could have taken appropriate action. They would have pulled it a lot sooner, rather than waiting for ConAgra to say "pull it."
Mr. Armstrong said it's his job to protect his little girls. He found out he can't protect them from spinach. "Only you guys can." Says the wrong answer is to keep doing what we're doing, because it's not working.
Edward Whitfield (R-KY) asked:
Did FDA or CDA ever contact you?
No. Ms. Marshall heard only from local health dept, long later.
Mr. Armstrong contacted local health agencies... HE reached out to them.
No one has heard from national agencies.
Thanked panel.
Diana DeGette (D-CO):
Lack of cooperation from ConAgra and other issues slowed down proper treatment of Ms. Marhsall's mother in law.
People are relying on their own deductive reasoning, news accounts to figure out what's going on. Mr. Pruden says family doctor's diagnosis was wrong, and at some point you have to connect the dots. It gets lost. Needs a better reporting system to help families put two and two together.
Michael Burgess (R-TX):
Asked why two daughters got sick a few days apart - answer was, time of onset of illness is variable.
Rep. Burgess is an MD (obstetrician). Commented on the fact that feeding the contaminated peanut butter in the hospital is a nightmare.
NOTE: Took a short break to obtain caffeine.
Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) is talking about all the things companies don't have to give to FDA inspectors. Asked if any of the family members had comments.
One of the fathers said the pieces aren't being put together, even though there was an outbreak in a neighboring county, the Taco Bells weren't shut down, even when he explained it to the local health department. Didn't even have to report it, btw.
Inslee:
Will be working on a bill to prevent contamination in the first place. Wants to focus on prevention, not just notification etc.
Make sure there are enforceable standards, not just wish lists. Industry must adopt what meat industry did, to identify hazards and eliminate them. Criminal penalties. Mandatory recall authority.
Industry doesn't like to be told what to do, but thinks these are reasonable proposals.
One of the fathers agrees, prevention has to be number one priority, but "after the fact" is also important - because if the truth is available, he doesn't know how industries can be profitable, because no one will buy their products. I think what he's saying is that a system of notification that people can really rely on will increase consumer trust ONLY if the news that system reveals is GOOD news. So notification will also support prevention.
Rep from MI commented that the Armstrongs and the Prudens were both made sick by produce from CA, even though they live in other states. Thanked and dismissed the families.
Next panel is put under oath. Neither wanted counsel present.
Ms. Lisa Shames, Acting Director, National Resources and Environment, US Government Accountability Office (GAO) is introduced.
Says while food supply is mostly safe, these outbreaks underscore risks. Each year CDC reports that around 76 million contract food borne illness.
Two points:
GAO designated food safety on high risk list because of lack of oversight, inefficient use of oversight, and lack of coordinator.
15 agencies, over 30 laws.
Resources spent do not align with risks of food contamination. Compares USDA and FDA funding... USDA gets more money to inspect far less than FDA.
Limitations in recall programs heighten the risk. Food recalls are VOLUNTARY. Neither FDA nor USDA can issue a mandatory order, except for infant formula. Other agencies... products, and trffic safety... can order recalls, establish recall requirements, impose monetary penalties.
In Oct 2004, USDA and FDA did not know details about ongoing recalls. Ineffective.
Proposed Congress enact legislation requiring companies to alert the public, and give both agencies mandatory recall authority.
Federal oversight of food safety needs to be addressed. Weaknesses caused by current fragmented system. Need to restore public confidence.
Dr. Anthony DeCarlo, Red Bank Veterinary Hospital.
Speaks to need for notification system for veterinarians. Vet community does not have the resources to do this in a timely manner. Many vet practices have only enough staff to meet the needs of their existing patients. Many vets heard about the story only on TV. Having a central reporting agency could be the key factor in heading off similar problems in the future.
NOTE: I don't understand who this vet is. His practice website doesn't mention any particular credentials that might make him a good witness here. Anyone know?
He is being pressed on the numbers, hard. He's wriggling.
"We're a small profession... Who reports where is a very subjective thing."
"There really needs to be an organized and focused place" for vets to report. That's why we don't have any facts.
Pressing for numbers continues.
He is still resisting. He says at his hospital, death rate has been only around 1 percent. (His practice is a specialty hospital.)
Missed a bit of discussion with Ms. Shames while looking up who Dr. DeCarlo is. Found
this. He was identified as a neurologist in one article, but I don't see anything indicating that on his practice website.
Back to Ms. Shames.
Mr. Whitfield asks Ms. Shames why there are no mandatory recalls for food as there are for tires and toys. What would have happened if ConAgra had not recalled peanut butter voluntarily?
She says the government couldn't have forced it.
He now asks Dr. DeCarlo about FDA and USDA requirements about testing for chemicals and drugs in animals raised for human consumption.
Dr. DeCarlo says that it's concerning (melamine in hogs, for instance) and confusing for vets. It's only been recently we've found out where there can be testing for melamine. We need a system. The less agencies involved, simplicity works most efficiently.
Ms. Shames says that mandatory recall authority will make businesses more forthcoming, to stay ahead of the curve. Other agencies ("tires and toys") report this.
Right now, health care providers report to county, then to CDC, then "some eager reporter" gets ahold of it, is there a more efficient way to publicize recalls and outbreaks of diseases?
Ms. Shames says Oct 2004 report found that consumer groups say information could be more effective... more specificity. FDA is following through on that tone recommendation. FDA includes a photo of the product, for instance.
No geographic notification. FDA officials said they don't even have the authority to identify a place or retail where a contaminated product has come from. (???????????)
Rep. Walden (Oregon) addresses Ms. Shames about import regulations, and if countries can use chemicals we don't permit in the US on food they sell us.
She says FDA has authority to have "equivalency agreements." This seemed very non-responsive to me.
He asks, was there not an outbreak on melons? Turns out there was human waste used as fertilizer, then melons were imported here?
She says she's not familiar, but that was a hypothesis for the e coli spinach contamination. Although currently it's thought to be a runoff problem from wild animals.
Walden asks about "washed" labeling. Does washing remove e. coli?
She says rinsing "helps," but doesn't really know.
Walden asks about inspections, and chemicals used in foreign companies. Then he switches to asking about Banfield's data system - asking Dr. DeCarlo if a partnership with Banfield will help in identifying.
DeCarlo says yes, but the databases need to come from several areas. There are general practices, such as Banfield, plus specialty practices, vet school hospitals, and shelters. Diagnoses based on different criteria. Some will overdiagnose, some will underdiagnose. You also have to look at volume and location.
DeCarlo says if we choose hospitals, they need to have sophisticated IT, not just equipment but staffing.
Walden asks about animal diseases that can affect humans.
DeCarlo says "this model is not new." New Jersey is looking at this issue. There is no question, he says, the vets need a single place to send this information.
Inslee asked if it was "just accident" that the wheat gluten didn't end up in the human food supply.
Asked why we can have a recall for cars, but not on stuff we put into our body.
Ms. Shames says they are looking at the food safety issues in other countries. Canada has mandatory food recall. Need to study. See what makes sense in this country.
Mr. Burgess:
Asked Dr. DeCarlo about aminopterin, now melamine. Why did aminopterin get named at first?
Dr. DeCarlo says "I am probably not the right person to ask that question. You probably had information from the same sources I do."
Burgess answered, "CNN." Asked if he's sure that melamine is causing this.
DeCarlo says YES, from "what I can read on the medical side." (NOTE: This isn't correct. He says "the majority of the literature" is confident it's melamine causing the symptoms. Again, that's not correct. There is much talk "on the medical side" that melamine is likely a marker but not the actual cause.)
Burgess asked about indoor vs outdoor animals. DeCarlo says he cannot answer that.
Burgess asks Ms. Shames US food supply vs other countries, and if she said the US food supply is safe. Does any country have a more streamlined model that suggests a better way to do this?
She says they are looking at other countries, started out as fragmented, piecemeal. Went for more consolidated approach. Some merged all agencies into one agency. Others reduced number. We are now, at the request of Durbin and DeLauro, looking at the positive consequences of these countries' reorganizations of their food safety systems.
Burgess asked if a company or manufacturer has refused to issue a recall? She says not that she knows of.
Has there been foot dragging?
She says that agencies with mandatory recall authority feel it is a tool they have although they don't use it often.
He pressed, has anyone said if we'd had the authority to MANDATE a recall, something wouldn't have happened?
She said no.
Rep. Blackburn:
Do you think federal government should have the authority to mandate recalls?
Ms. Shames says USDA and FDA should, yes.
Rep. Blackburn says even medical profession does not access CDC information.
(SHORT BREAK HERE FOR ME SO I CAN FOCUS ON THE MENU AND CHEMNUTRA WITNESSES LATER.)
Third panel put under oath.
# Mr. Paul K. Henderson
CEO, Menu Foods
# Mr. Stephen S. Miller
CEO, ChemNutra, Inc.
# Mr. David Colo
Sr. Vice-president, Manufacturing
ConAgra Foods, Inc.
# Mr. Charles Sweat
President
Natural Selection Foods
Henderson of Menu Foods is represented by counsel, as is Stephen Miller of ChemNutra. Neither of the human side witnesses has an atttorney present.
Paul Henderson of Menu Foods opening statement:
Says he is a pet owner and his dog eats Menu foods. Understands loss felt by pet owners. Deeply sympathizes.
Outlines all inspections his plants go through. Says never had a food safety product recall in the last 75 years.
Says much speculation has been inaccurate. Says he provided a timeline in writing, will not repeat.
This is NOT a situation caused by unclean facilities or poor manufacturing.
Lax inspections did not contribute to this problem.
They did not react inappropriately. They reacted properly based on information they had at the time.
They said at the time they issued the recall, they had no idea what was causing the kidney failure, said they had only a small handful of reports from consumers (said three from one consumer?) and customers, and from one taste test facility when it issued recall, even though they had no evidence it was their food causing the problem. He said it took researchers "weeks" to figure out ChemNutra wheat gluten was the source of the problem.
Said this was FRAUD, deliberate contamination. They have discontinued all business relationships with ChemNutra. Worked with FDA. Cooperated fully.
Mr. Charles Sweat, president of Natural Selection Foods. Discusses spinach e. coli outbreak.
Interesting to hear his testing protocol following the recall. Testing, testing, testing. Says much more needs to be done, including development of standards. "We welcome regulation in this arena, but with or without regulation" industry should WELCOME more regulation, and can in fact implement many changes more rapidly than government, and should and must do so.
Dave Colo of ConAgra begins.
Says they are fully aligned to ensure our food supply is "among the safest in the world."
Outlines the outbreak of salmonella in peanut butter. Begins by saying he is SORRY.
Goes over timeline. Says they didn't hear until February there had been a statistical study done by CDC that suggested ConAgra's pb products MAY have been linked to illnesses. The next day, the company voluntarily recalled ALL pb products, and closed one facility.
Initiated investigation. ConAgra worked with FDA. Believes moisture "inadvertently" entered manufacturing process and allowed salmonella to grow. Rate of contamination was low and not detected by their testing program.
The facility has been idle since recall issued. Is implementing signifigant changes to facility. Estimated cost is $15-20 million. ConAgra is committed to taking the time for each of these steps and doesn't expect to re-open until August.
Is now inspecting all other manufacturing facilities. Dr. Mike Doyle, food safety specialist, and others are inspecting. Committed to food safety. Working closely with FDA. Appreciates FDA and CDC.
Has provided committee with summary of their procedures assuring rapid FDA access.
Once more said how sorry they are... "truly sorry"... for the people who might have been harmed. His voice is trembling a little.
Now Miller from ChemNutra:
Safety of the food supply is important.
ChemNutra is a small business in Las Vegas. He introduces lawyer.
Expresses "support and condolences" to pet owners whose pets have died, and those who have become fearful. Also offers his sympathy to pet food companies.
Says until March 8, ChemNutra had never had any problems with their Chinese sources. Only on March 8 did they learn Menu was investigating wheat gluten, almost 3 weeks after Menu learned of possible contamination in pet food.
The next day, ChemNutra froze all wheat gluten in their supplies.
Says that Menu announced recall some time later, DID NOT MENTION WHEAT GLUTEN.
Only on March 29 did ChemNutra hear about melamine.
On April 2, issued a recall.
Says there are many suppositions and few facts. They know there is melamine in the shipment of wheat gluten. Says they think the company in China added melamine to up the protein content.
Melamine was not something tested for in the past, although they are now.
Says there was a similar incident 30 years ago with urea contamination for the same reason. Says since then, we test for urea.
Chair asked:
What do the other three of the four customers make?
All make pet food, like Menu.
Chair asked:
What did you so with remaining wheat gluten?
It's quarantined in our warehouse.
Will be disposed of?
Working with FDA.
Asks Mr. Colo:
In October '04, you found salmonella in your peanut butter, right? Colo agrees.
Chair says, FDA never obtained information they asked for about the 2004 salmonella.
Colo says that product was NEVER SHIPPED. FDA asked for records in 2005. ConAgra asked FDA to request in writing, FDA never did and never followed up.
Chair asks: Has FDA or USDA asked about possible contamination and ask for records, and ConAgra did not provide it?
He says that their procedure would be to ask for such requests to be made in writing.
Chair says, we hear rumors that you stonewall.
Colo says he's not aware of all requests from FDA, can't answer at this time. Is asked to follow up.
Chair asks Henderson:
You said melamine was added intentionally. Fraud.
Chair asks, What gluten is used in things other than pet food? Henderson agrees.
Chair asks, you can't know until after the fact, right?
Henderson says that's right, melamine is not a contaminant for which there was a testing protocol. Doesn't know if it's happened before, or is happening now.
Chair asks, you order from Miller. Henderson says yes.
Chair asks, Mr. Miller, you order from China then?
Miller says yes.
Questions about the Chinese supplier. Had ChemNutra used them before? Yes. Were there problems before? Says no. Says wheat gluten was a new product for them (ChemNutra).
Chair asking Mr. Sweat about product packaging on Natural Selection spinach. Asked what "completely washed" on label means.
Discussion of process.
Asked about testing for e. coli.
Sweat said they'd never had food borne illness on product, so basically no. But Chair asks about e coli contamination in other products grown in the area. He immediately steered his response to how they RESPONDED, and talked about using beef industry protocols now (post-outbreak).
Chair asks questions about processing. Asks about investigations. FDA investigated the facility very week of the contamination. FDA does not require testing. FDA just looked around at process. No testing.
Chair asks Henderson, you're in US and Canada. Are you inspected by the FDA? New Jersey was inspected in 2006. Doesn't have dates of other inspections. Says about once a year. Says USDA inspects annually. Says Canadian plant is inspected annually.
Chair asks about an outbreak in France? What outbreak was in France?
Mr. Whitfield is asking Henderson questions about its financial standing (publicly traded in Canada), and how much wheat gluten they use in a year, and what percentage used in a year is from US... says he doesn't know.
Whitfield then asks Miller if it's not around 25 percent, nationwide. He agrees.
Asking about Miller's wife who is president of ChemNutra and is from China. Asks if, since his wife is a citizen of China, they might have additional recourse. Miller says he has not looked into that, but will.
Whitfield asks Mr. Henderson about finished product testing program at Menu, and says he assumes it would not detect melamine.
Program at Menu, he says, is the testing of the raw materials, rather than testing finished product. Cooking is supposed to deal with bacterial contamination. They test the raw materials, not the finished product. They test for toxins in the raw material... such as testing wheat gluten for vomitoxin... but not for melamine.
Whitfield asks if FDA requires any of the testing they do. Henderson says no.
Whitfield asks Mr. Colo if FDA requires finished product testing of their products. Says no.
Colo says they sample one jar of peanut butter per packing line per day. Hold all peanut butter until tests are back.
Whitfield asks if there is a method that could definitively remove e coli and salmonella. Sweat says he doesn't believe there's a final kill step that could be implemented.
Whitfield asks about irradiation. FDA does not approve for use on fruits and vegetables, nor peanut butter.
Some timeline questions about the peanut butter contamination.
Ms. DeGette:
Asks Sweat if they found out what caused spinach contamination. He says no, and the investigation has been closed.
Asked Colo from ConAgra about 2005 investigation. They review this at length.
Colo repeats that their policy is to make FDA ask for information in writing. She is framing this that even though FDA notified them of some issues, they didn't do anything because it wasn't in writing, and he appears to be agreeing that's the case.
She continues to go over their testing, timeline, and other issues related to peanut butter contamination.
Now Mr. Walden of Oregon is grilling ConAgra about the peanut butter contamination. He asks if mandatory recall would make a difference to any of them.
Henderson says no, he doesn't think it would have made any difference. They wouldn't have done anything differently.
Sweat says they went to a voluntary recall in less than 24 hours, so no.
Colo says FDA having recall authority wouldn't change anything they are doing today. (Doesn't quite answer about if it would have changed what they were doing at the time.)
Miller says it wouldn't matter to them, either.
Walden then asks them what could be done to improve safety. Says his shopping habits have been affected, he's making different choices. What do you recommend we do to improve food safety? Your companyies' bottom lines are in the crosshairs here.
Henderson: The ability of inspections to be taken by US authorities in those jurisdictions where exports are being made. Says Toronto plant has to get approval and qualify to ship product to US, or to Europe. Says that companies should be certified and inspected and accredited in order to import to the US. Says that way, the plant in China would have been inspected.
Then Walden asks if mandatory country of origin labeling wouldn't help.
Henderson says that no, they don't have that level of information.
Walden says, wouldn't you like to?
Henderson says there has to be some element of accountability through the chain. Says the people they deal with are "known suppliers." He doesn't believe tracing the supply chain is commercially practical.
Sweat answers regarding produce. Then Walden is out of time.
The chair now asks Henderson about the timeline. March 16 was first recall. March 24 was second recall. April 5 was third recall. April 10 was fourth. A recall authority by the FDA would have sped that up, no?
Henderson says no. At the time of the March 16 recall, they didn't know the nature of the problem.
Chair says I'm not asking about the problem. I'm asking if FDA recall authority wouldn't have made this take less than a month. Says Iams really got the ball rolling here, not you, by saying they were going to recall their foods. Says he thinks FDA authority might have limited the scope.
Henderson said the conversation with Iams involved the sharing of information, then a meeting the next day to exchange what they knew. "Iams opted to recall. We went along. We announced first."
Chair says, this was three weeks after you had dead animals in testing.
Sweat is discussing again reaching out to the standards of the beef industry and reviewing testing and prevention program. Says their current finished products testing program has found NO contamination.
Inslee asks if this program should be the industry standard. Sweat says yes, but science needs to come up with more. Industry needs to invest more in science and research. Adds additional interventions and hurdles for health safety. Mentions "Leafy Green Marketing Agreement" in CA.
Inslee asks if they've considered ozone treatment as a kill step. Sweat says ozone is hard to control with water, but they are looking at many different sanitizers. Have set up a biohazard lab level 3 to test wash systems. Inslee mentions new ozone sterilization system that is in his district. Sweat is not familiar. Inslee says he'll send him info.
Inslee asks what they do when they get a positive from the field. That lot is destroyed and that field is audited. They have so far not been able to find links to the field in tested product.
Inslee asks how about if FDA required this testing, would you be okay with that? Sweat says yes.
Inslee asks more about Moneterey County CA outbreaks of e coli.
Inslee asks Miller if gluten was food grade. Miller says yes, it was good grade.
Inslee says, we just dodged a bullet.
Miller says yes, and says China knew it was going into pet food. But Inslee pushes, and says it was sold as food grade and could have gone into human consumption. Miller says yes.
Miller says his surmise is that this was intentional fraud to make money, of which they are a victim as are their customers. Believes that the Chinese were aware their customers were pet food customers.
Inslee asks if there would have been other standards or protocols to prevent this from going into the human food supply. Miller agrees there were not. Calls this contamination "off the radar."
Inslee says we should consider this as a human adulterant. Miller agreed.
Mr. Burgess asks Mr. Henderson if we don't really know if the melamine was added by someone "with larceny in his heart." Then he asked Mr. Sweat if they had a direct link to where the e coli came from. Then he asked the Chair about connecting dots and asking if these "spectacularly unrelated" events might not be connected after all.
Chinese gluten, Canadian catfood, Mexican spinach... why do we import gluten from China? Can't we produce gluten here? Is it economic?
Henderson says from a wheat perspective is that 50 percent of the wheat gluten used in the US comes from Europe. There is not enough capacity to meet the demands.
Miller says some of what comes from Europe originates in other countries.
What steps are being taken to prosecute the foreign supplier? Are we trying to determine who did what, and whom to prosecute?
Henderson says the FDA is trying to get into China. Says there is not much they (Menu) can do.
Now asking Colo about peanuts and salmonella.
More discussion with Sweat about testing and the e coli outbreak.
I have now been liveblogging for FOUR HOURS. I'm going to have to stop soon.
One representative asked Henderson on behalf of his constituents and his dog, when will things get back to normal?
Henderson says recall is "still going on" as he sits here today. Focus on getting all product back off shelves. Then they'll begin shipping product manufactured with tested gluten - next week or two.
Stupak asked for some info on inspections to be provided in the next week. Henderson asked how far back. Stupak said 2000 to April 2007. Henderson agreed, then the others did as well.
The hearing is concluded.
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